Multiple People Shot at Texas Church
- Thread starter majormadmax
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cycleguy2300
TGT Addict
Time it... and even with the gun in his hand he is slow to bring the gun to a firing position. It was a training failure, had he trained (I assume) he would have changed where he carried or at least improved his draw speed. Maybe it was as fast as he could move, but it looks like hesitation after he draws his own weapon.
The slowness, combined with the "drop it drop it" I see a mindset failure where he carried (good) but didn't train enough (bad) and didn't expect to have to actually shoot anyone (bad). He had the mindset to act, but a lack of planning and what looks to me a lack of committal (mindset again), got him and another person killed.
It partially reminds me of the Trooper Vetter shooting ( ) Mindset again...
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cycleguy2300
TGT Addict
Just curious, how often do you train with someone aiming a shotgun at you ready to shoot?
cycleguy2300
TGT Addict
So is that agreeing it was mindset or just a jab at me?
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Just watched the news"again" and Jack Wilson is a retired FBI agent.
Just wondering how many people, here, that has the training,or be able, to react to a situation like this within 5 seconds and take out the shooter. I know people run it through their mind what they would do, But how many could do it in the time frame that Mr. Wilson did?
Just wondering how many people, here, that has the training,or be able, to react to a situation like this within 5 seconds and take out the shooter. I know people run it through their mind what they would do, But how many could do it in the time frame that Mr. Wilson did?
Just saying that I can't remember how many times I was watching a football game and said "I can throw a ball better than that!", and maybe I could, but then I didn't take into account that there are a half dozen huge guys at that time wanting to flatten me.
Sounds like another case for disarming law abiding citizens. Criminals will surely follow suit.
FireInTheWire
Caprock Crusader
Was his alias SloppyShooter?
Had I been able to remember his name, I would have posted something very similar yesterday.
WTF. Just because one cannot draw as fast as Max Michel does not make it a training failure. Active Self Protection guy timed it at 3.1 seconds.
LOL, you know how much he trained, what his mindset was, what he was commitment was, etc. Have you ever considered maybe he had the flu, a pulled muscle, or perhaps there were other reasons why he was slow that day?
Wildcat Diva
TGT Addict
- Aug 26, 2016
- 3,040
- 96
I myself, could see there being a second of, “wait, this isn’t happening, surely this person isn’t really going to do this. No way I’m going to have to draw on him, just wait a second, he can be calmed down.”
At least that’s what flashed in my head. Being an RN, that’s the guy we are talking about yeah?, maybe an RN or other “helper,” might think something like that.
This is good training for me, because obviously no one has time for thoughts like that. You have to decide in a fraction of a second what to do. You don’t have two seconds for ANYTHING extraneous.
At least that’s what flashed in my head. Being an RN, that’s the guy we are talking about yeah?, maybe an RN or other “helper,” might think something like that.
This is good training for me, because obviously no one has time for thoughts like that. You have to decide in a fraction of a second what to do. You don’t have two seconds for ANYTHING extraneous.
cycleguy2300
TGT Addict
3.1 second to just get the gun OUT is WAY too flipping slow... he showed exactly why unfortunately.
I am no who ever that max is, but I can and do draw and fire from concealed in <2sec... it was a training failure to fumble with his pistol, then a mindset or training issue to be so slow to present it for firing... I don't know why you have a beef with that. It is the most reasonable and likely option with out wandering down your what-if trail.
I did consider other reasons he may have don't that, but training and mindset are the most reasonable and seem to match what I see. If make excuses for bad training or poor mindset, you won't learn.
Step by step because I am a simple man here...
-what do you see during the draw
-what do you see during the presentation
Instead of making up excuses like maybe he had the flu etc, point to something in the video that makes you think that was actually the case.
I have training, experience and evidence that leads me to believe the first victim was handicapped by training and mindset. You, so far as I have seen, have nothing but excuses and maybes. Please state your case if you have one.
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Well then you would be dead too. When a shotgun is pointed at you, the chance you can draw from concealment while sitting and shoot the guy before he pulls the trigger is near 0.
This just in -
The best trained people in the world, still make mistakes.
Dont let yourselves be drawn into arguments over who does what better or trained or didnt etc. Take away for yourself what you need and apply it.
No one can out draw a 12 gage already pointed at you. Sorry you just cant. At that point something went wrong.
You can however stand up and close the distance to a guy dressed like that in church who gets up when most people dont. You are now close enough that he cant bring a 12 gage up with you all over him.
People need to be aware. Trust your gut.
Start watching people around you. Become aware. Notice people who are watching others.
Again trust your gut. Dont abdicate responsibility to protect yourself to others. I'll say it again you dont have to bow your head and close your eyes to pray. You do have to do that to put yourself at the whim of those who would do you harm. Your relationship with god is a personal one not dependent on the opinion of others watching you pray.
No one can out draw a 12 gage already pointed at you. Sorry you just cant. At that point something went wrong.
You can however stand up and close the distance to a guy dressed like that in church who gets up when most people dont. You are now close enough that he cant bring a 12 gage up with you all over him.
People need to be aware. Trust your gut.
Start watching people around you. Become aware. Notice people who are watching others.
Again trust your gut. Dont abdicate responsibility to protect yourself to others. I'll say it again you dont have to bow your head and close your eyes to pray. You do have to do that to put yourself at the whim of those who would do you harm. Your relationship with god is a personal one not dependent on the opinion of others watching you pray.
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I see a 67 yo man staring down the bbl of a 12GA, while seated and his carry gun is deep below 2 layers of clothing. Getting a gun out in 3.1 seconds, while slow, is remarkable under those conditions. Most folks probably would not even draw under those circumstances, as death is a near certainty.
