Multiple People Shot at Texas Church

[rman]

I need a lot more practice drawing from concealed.

I don’t recall any ranges that allow firing from a draw...are their any?
(I can totally understand why they don’t allow it)


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lots of ranges in Fort Worth

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[Rhino]

Another thing to consider is that while these last two church attacks in TX have been lone gunman, you may have to consider the possibility of more than one attacker, and processing and identifying who all is involved may take a second or two. I still think the response here was entirely reasonable and commendable in its swiftness.

 

[kbaxter60]

I see what you did there...

I don't.

What is step #2?
Or is there only step #1?

 

[cycleguy2300]

Another thing to consider is that while these last two church attacks in TX have been lone gunman, you may have to consider the possibility of more than one attacker, and processing and identifying who all is involved may take a second or two. I still think the response here was entirely reasonable and commendable in its swiftness.

You fight the immediate threat.

The time to look around and wonder if there is something else going on had passed. You should have been looking around the whole time. That's part of mindset and training again...


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[JCC]

also, I have heard the laser rounds are very good dry fire practice using an app to show where you are hitting

https://www.itargetpro.com/ and use promo code Dan for 10% off

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[cycleguy2300]

also, I have heard the laser rounds are very good dry fire practice using an app to show where you are hitting

https://www.itargetpro.com/ and use promo code Dan for 10% off

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Laser rounds are good. Also, set and empty casing on the slide or even the front sight it help clean up your trigger pull (obviously when dry firing...)

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[majormadmax]

While it's easy to be the Monday morning quarterback, I'm going to refer to the man that was shot while drawing his gun. If he was on the security detail, why was he sitting down? Was he not healthy enough to stand? Was he complacent? By sitting, his situational awareness was greatly compromised. When he stood, he drew attention to himself. But, he was attempting to engage the shooter, just what he should have done. Sadly, he died a brave hero.

It is very sad that good people lost their lives by just doing routine, everyday things. We may not say it out loud but many think "that would never happen here." It always happens somewhere else, not here. Well, it did happen in a small town that no one had heard of, at least outside of Texas. Before yesterday, I'm sure that many of them thought "that would never happen here." Yesterday, their lives changed forever.

Those are bold assumptions. I don't think there was really any "security detail" and the gentleman who shot the shooter was just quicker on the draw than anyone else due to his background as a firearms instructor.

I suspect the man sitting was just an usher who tried to respond but wasn't able to in time. Once again, I firmly believe that concealed carry restricts one's ability to do so; but understand why people decide to accept that risk (I do all the time). I know don't share the same feeling, but studies I've found showed to draw from a concealed position can be up to 1.5 seconds slower than from an open position. Obviously there are other factors that can lower or even increase that time, but on average I think that's a reasonable conclusion and in this situation 1.5 seconds could have made a difference.

I recommend testing that theory yourself. Try drawing (with a verified unloaded weapon) a concealed weapon, then try from open carry. Which is quicker?

But I am not judging any of those involved in this incident, and in fact believe all did an excellent job responding to the threat. I don't agree with much of the video analysis posted earlier that acted as if the ushers were a trained SWAT team not simply volunteer ushers at a church. If they were younger, more trained individuals than I might have expected a quicker response; but under the circumstances I feel they did as well of a job as can be expected. I doubt many of their critics would have done any better!

 

[majormadmax]

 

[kenboyles72]

I recommend testing that theory yourself. Try drawing (with a verified unloaded weapon) a concealed weapon, then try from open carry. Which is quicker?

Exactly. Every member that is on our Church's security team, deep conceals. I had lunch with one of the guys and he asked me why I OC OWB. I then asked him, how long does it take you to pull your pistol, that's deep concealed and worn small of back? His answer, not that fast. When I was over at his house one day, I had him draw as fast as he could (weapon unloaded) and dry fire on a target, almost 3 seconds. I did the same with how I carry, 1 second or less. In three seconds, you are dead. Even with me showing and explaining this to him, he still proceeds to carry deep concealed. Thank the Lord, that I'm armed and carry so I can draw fast, cause I can't depend on our security members to do so. I do cover with my sports jacket, but if I knew it wouldn't cause a ruckus, I would OC in church.

 

[leVieux]

Exactly. Every member that is on our Church's security team, deep conceals. I had lunch with one of the guys and he asked me why I OC OWB. I then asked him, how long does it take you to pull your pistol, that's deep concealed and worn small of back? His answer, not that fast. When I was over at his house one day, I had him draw as fast as he could (weapon unloaded) and dry fire on a target, almost 3 seconds. I did the same with how I carry, 1 second or less. In three seconds, you are dead. Even with me showing and explaining this to him, he still proceeds to carry deep concealed. Thank the Lord, that I'm armed and carry so I can draw fast, cause I can't depend on our security members to do so. I do cover with my sports jacket, but if I knew it wouldn't cause a ruckus, I would OC in church.

I really like this reply. The O C / C C "debate" has been seriously carried way too far. This is not a "religion"; there are times and places for either or both.
leVieux

 

[Texasgordo]

I saw Beto O'Dickhead didn't waste any time dancing on the dead bodies. I tried to get the link but I'm too dumb to get it done.

 

[oldag]

I saw Beto O'Dickhead didn't waste any time dancing on the dead bodies. I tried to get the link but I'm too dumb to get it done.

And a gal on Fox tore him to shreds.

 

[JCC]

I saw Beto O'Dickhead didn't waste any time dancing on the dead bodies. I tried to get the link but I'm too dumb to get it done.

Does he think he is still relevant or ever was?

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[toddnjoyce]

I saw Beto O'Dickhead didn't waste any time dancing on the dead bodies. I tried to get the link but I'm too dumb to get it done.

https://twitter.com/betoorourke/status/1211362454833442817?s=21

Top comments right now

 

[candcallen]

He should just go back to what he does best.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/theweek.com/speedreads-amp/819339/watch-beto-orourke-rock-sheep-costume

 

[Whistler]

I don't.

What is step #2?
Or is there only step #1?

It was humor in response to "Step #1 buy a Glock", what didn't you get?

 

[joking]

I wonder what caliber did Jack Wilson use to shot that POS? .45 may be?

 

[JCC]

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[Texasgordo]

I wonder what caliber did Jack Wilson use to shot that POS? .45 may be?

Sig P229 in .357sig is what I read on another forum

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Sig P229 in .357sig is what I read on another forum

That's what I read in this thread...