cycleguy2300
TGT Addict
I was discussing this and we both thought he was close enough for a charge to be a viable option. Not second guessing attempting a draw, just saying there may have been other options.
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Multiple People Shot at Texas Church
- Thread starter majormadmax
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No one who acted failed.
Think about that.
No one who prepares and carries fails. We all have a similar path of learning and discovery and in this subject that ALWAYS includes the death or injury of others. There is a reason we choose to carry. Usually because of something that happens to someone else.
The failure is not learning from these things. Like I said earlier, Learning brings meaning to loss. It's the only meaning you can find to senseless evil acts.
Think about that.
No one who prepares and carries fails. We all have a similar path of learning and discovery and in this subject that ALWAYS includes the death or injury of others. There is a reason we choose to carry. Usually because of something that happens to someone else.
The failure is not learning from these things. Like I said earlier, Learning brings meaning to loss. It's the only meaning you can find to senseless evil acts.
When I was younger, much younger, I could out draw a lot of people. By 35, that was no longer true. At 62, not only am I slower, but I have had to change how I carry and how I draw. From some positions with some handguns I have to now carry butt forward or I can not even get them out of the holster due to bad joints.
The first 2 victims do not appear to be young men. None of knows what kind of joint or muscle injuries they have or have had that interfered with their draw. Or their mindset. Only that they lost to a person that already had a gun out and pointed at them. And obviously ready and willing to shoot.
Fast is relative. And no matter how fast you are, it may not be fast enough.
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The first 2 victims do not appear to be young men. None of knows what kind of joint or muscle injuries they have or have had that interfered with their draw. Or their mindset. Only that they lost to a person that already had a gun out and pointed at them. And obviously ready and willing to shoot.
Fast is relative. And no matter how fast you are, it may not be fast enough.
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I agree. They volunteered to protect other innocents in that church to keep them from getting hurt or killed.
Win or lose the draw, that is exactly what they accomplished.
They deserve nothing but respect.
The only failure would have been to do nothing.
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This is the take away, all the badassery is just noise. Renegade, jrbfishn and others are right, no one on this forum knows what physical challenges might be at play here. He stood his ground and you self appointed high speed low drag operators can keep your "he shoulda's" for telling stories with your drinking buddies.
^^^THIS^^^ And only this. He made a commitment and he kept it. I saw God given courage.
Texasgordo
TGT Addict
Who's that?
FireInTheWire
Caprock Crusader
Attachments
Texasgordo
TGT Addict
Didn't someone catch him using a different name?
Maybe....
DarkwingDuck
Active Member
- Feb 13, 2014
- 362
- 11
source: https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/keith-thomas-kinnunen/
Some interesting bits of info:
In case ya missed it --
DWD
Some interesting bits of info:
In case ya missed it --
And the fine folks in New Jersey, fucking up ammunition descriptions since 1923.
DWD
FireInTheWire
Caprock Crusader
Texasgordo
TGT Addict
Maybe what?
Maybe they did.
Texasgordo
TGT Addict
Yeah Big Green found out.
A viable question might be "How many of us on this thread have had a gun pulled on us in total surprise and how long did it take our brain to process what was actually happening?". Targets and obstacles are one thing, a deadly threat is another.
Many years ago I was sitting behind the counter of a convenience store when a perp pulled a gun while my friend was ringing him up. It was a total surprise because the guy was well dressed, friendly and was in the process of making a normal purchase of a loaf of bread and some milk. He got the drop on us and it took me about two seconds to process the incident by which time the gun barrel was about 12 inches from my friend's face. My 1911 was in my shoulder holster (it was cold weather) but I decided any move on my part would likely mean my friend's death so I did not move but sat poised to draw if the opportunity arose. My friend handed over the money and the guy spun around and was out the door by the time my gun was drawn. If he had intended to shoot there was no way I could have stopped him before he got a shot off.
He had someone driving with the engine running and the door open so by the time we got around the counter the car was leaving the parking lot.
My point is that this was real life, a real threat and a total surprise that cost me the time to prevent the incident. Had I pulled my weapon at the instant he reached for his gun it might have been a draw but that was improbable since he could have just been reaching for his wallet like hundreds of other customers.
Unless you are a combat instructor or have been in a number of close quarter combat situations, instant response most likely means 3-5 seconds for most of us. To repeat from my earlier post, these folks did as good as could be expected.
Many years ago I was sitting behind the counter of a convenience store when a perp pulled a gun while my friend was ringing him up. It was a total surprise because the guy was well dressed, friendly and was in the process of making a normal purchase of a loaf of bread and some milk. He got the drop on us and it took me about two seconds to process the incident by which time the gun barrel was about 12 inches from my friend's face. My 1911 was in my shoulder holster (it was cold weather) but I decided any move on my part would likely mean my friend's death so I did not move but sat poised to draw if the opportunity arose. My friend handed over the money and the guy spun around and was out the door by the time my gun was drawn. If he had intended to shoot there was no way I could have stopped him before he got a shot off.
He had someone driving with the engine running and the door open so by the time we got around the counter the car was leaving the parking lot.
My point is that this was real life, a real threat and a total surprise that cost me the time to prevent the incident. Had I pulled my weapon at the instant he reached for his gun it might have been a draw but that was improbable since he could have just been reaching for his wallet like hundreds of other customers.
Unless you are a combat instructor or have been in a number of close quarter combat situations, instant response most likely means 3-5 seconds for most of us. To repeat from my earlier post, these folks did as good as could be expected.
