Multiple People Shot at Texas Church

[easy rider]

Bad people will find ways to do bad things, all the preparation in the world won't stop that. All I can say is that it would have probably been much worse had there not been a good guy with a gun.

 

[Big Dipper]

This scenario is exceedingly difficult for churches. The "outcast" or "different" person often needs to be in church. We don't want to make them unwelcome. I have seen lives changed and people come out of terrible circumstances. And telling the difference between a different person and a different person intent on causing harm is not always easy.

Perhaps the best solution is making the security team aware and having an alert security team member at the ready and at an appropriate distance?

Thoughts?

And, that uncertainty may be part of the delay in the one victim’s response, not just fumbling his draw.

 

[TheMailMan]

Anyone in the Dallas area that wants to practice their concealed carry draw just needs to PM me. My club allows it. It's $5 for a visitor, we can shoot all day if you want.

Our defensive pistol match is the third Saturday of the month. For the next three months you MUST draw from concealment. Everyone is welcome.

 

[Kar98]

Honestly, the one time I felt I was forced to draw, the gun was in my hand and pointing at the guy's nose before I even knew it. And that was with me sitting in my car and belted in.

 

[Geezer]

While it's easy to be the Monday morning quarterback, I'm going to refer to the man that was shot while drawing his gun. If he was on the security detail, why was he sitting down? Was he not healthy enough to stand? Was he complacent? By sitting, his situational awareness was greatly compromised. When he stood, he drew attention to himself. But, he was attempting to engage the shooter, just what he should have done. Sadly, he died a brave hero.

It is very sad that good people lost their lives by just doing routine, everyday things. We may not say it out loud but many think "that would never happen here." It always happens somewhere else, not here. Well, it did happen in a small town that no one had heard of, at least outside of Texas. Before yesterday, I'm sure that many of them thought "that would never happen here." Yesterday, their lives changed forever.

 

[SlimJim]

Thank God for armed church security. Compare this to the stabbings at the Rabbis home in NY. I bet someone there wish they had a firearm.

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[Rango]

God Bless the Heros and their families.
All did the best they could.

Anybody that thinks different get back to me after YOU have used a gun to defend your life.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Outstanding job. Really everyone in that church did great. They, or some at least, obviously practiced or at a minimum made and discussed a plan.



Now since every incident is a learning tool, they obviously knew something was up by their positioning. The instant the guy stood up it was obvious something wasnt right. People need to always be suspicious of strangers in strange places dressed strange.

Listen to your gut. You can apologize later.

You dont have to close your eyes and bow your head to pray. Cowards dont start crap when everyone is looking at them.

Yes hindsight is razor sharp. Those folks did superbly in that situation and learning from it confirms all the correct things they did. Also look around thru the church and the actions of the other members. Study the dress and actions of the shooter. Learning gives some meaning to loss.

These shooters are cowards. The more they are dropped instantly the more they will question if a soft target really exists anymore.

There will still be bat shit crazy evil and you can only stop that by killing it.

ETA. Like was mentioned, everyone needs practicing drawing from concealment. Everyone!

Also I suggest you commit to concealed carry by dressing around your weapon not trying to fit your weapon to your clothes and always carry the same gun in the same position. "Rotating" like some folks like to do will kill you. Watch someone reach for a gun that isnt there when they need it cause they tossed a gun in a pocket cause it was hot and you will figure it out.

I'm not saying that to start an arguement with folks that carry different guns or in different places. First rule is have it when you need it. I'm saying the life you save may be your own or one even more important to you.

I understand your point but this means that I can never wear a skirt or a dress again if I take this advice.
Sigh. It’s just going to have to be an imperfect setup.

 

[Texan-in-Training]

Just now came across this...

https://politicalcowboy.com/meet-jack-wilson-the-man-who-took-down-the-texas-church-shooter/

 

[cycleguy2300]

Well, other contents in your car be stolen, pawned and the cash used to buy a gun. Do you leave your car entirely empty?

Your car could be stolen and some of the proceeds used for guns. Do you carry your car inside everywhere you go?

Your home could be broken into and guns stolen. Maybe you should not have any guns left at home.

I am not responsible for what some crook may do.

I am not going to drive around with no gun in the car just because I will get out of my car and leave a gun in it for a bit.

Enough off topic.

I see you have chosen the path of what-if and coulda-woulda...

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[TxStetson]

I understand your point but this means that I can never wear a skirt or a dress again if I take this advice.
Sigh. It’s just going to have to be an imperfect setup.

The decision to carry is always going to be a give and take. You have to decide what's more important to you. I have worked with a few women who refused to change the way they dressed or their style to conceal carry. And many more who with a little helpful advice here and there, decided on their own to slightly change their style to facilitate the gun and holster. There was also one who just decided to start dressing more like a guy. The how and what of it is entirely your choice and not something you should just jump into lightly. There are thigh holsters, belly bands, sticky holsters that will stay in the waistline, and concealed carry purses. I don't normally recommend a concealed carry purse because they can be easily snatched, but sometimes those are the best alternative.

 

[easy rider]

Start a women's concealed carry clothing line, might make a few bucks.

 

[Coiled]

Here is a link about the person who stopped the threat.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/jack-wilson/

The shooting occurred at the church in White Settlement, Texas, a community located a few miles from Fort Worth. Authorities said an armed parishioner also shot the gunman at the same time as Wilson.

“The suspect is deceased, and the threat has stopped thanks to the heroic action of those two parishioners at the church,” White Settlement Police Chief J.P. Bevering said at a news conference. The second parishioner has not been named.

Replaying the vid multiple times, I thought I saw a 3rd muzzle flash near the attacker yet coming from the pew.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Nonsense. Watch the video. The first person shot was in the act of drawing. He was having trouble getting his pistol out. He did not freeze. That is a slander on a very brave man.

I am not saying he was anything other than a brave man who acted with courage to stop this.

However even brave men can hesitate when their OODA loop gets disrupted and that's what I saw and still see after watching it several times closely. He had 3-4 seconds after he recognized the threat and stood up to draw and fire, but he fumbled with his draw, then was slow to bring the gun up to fire.

If you want to leave the fight fight or freeze out of it, that's fine its an observation and suspicion, but the fact is he took too long to draw and get accurate rounds on target and lost the fight.

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[Wildcat Diva]

The decision to carry is always going to be a give and take. You have to decide what's more important to you. I have worked with a few women who refused to change the way they dressed or their style to conceal carry. And many more who with a little helpful advice here and there, decided on their own to slightly change their style to facilitate the gun and holster. There was also one who just decided to start dressing more like a guy. The how and what of it is entirely your choice and not something you should just jump into lightly. There are thigh holsters, belly bands, sticky holsters that will stay in the waistline, and concealed carry purses. I don't normally recommend a concealed carry purse because they can be easily snatched, but sometimes those are the best alternative.

Right. But not choosing one method between all these involve breaking the cardinal rule of you must always carry the same place all the time. So pick one way and stick to it. I’m not going to choose purse carry as my main way to carry.

I’m not going to dress like a guy every day of my life. I DO normally carry OWB at 7:30 with a cover garment. But to commit to that uniform every day of my life, ugh.

I’m just going to have to break the rule of never changing up the carry position.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Start a women's concealed carry clothing line, might make a few bucks.

I am not the person for this task. I am very picky and not easily satisfied with what doesn’t work.

And having curvy hips and trying to draw, even from an OWB waist position when the hilt of the firearm is buried right in the point of your hourglass shape doesn’t really work well.

This is why they make drop offset holsters legal for women in IDPA. But no one is gonna want to mess with a drop offset holster for everyday carry.

Women’s body types and clothing styles vary too much.

It would be impossible to not break the rule of never change your carry position, ever. Level of commitment I don’t know one woman that would be willing to make.

I’ll just give myself a pass to break the rule.

 

[Renegade]

However even brave men can hesitate when their OODA loop gets disrupted and that's what I saw and still see after watching it several times closely.

You see what you see.

I think the rest of us see a guy who had a shotgun pointed at him from a few feet, knew he had to draw/shoot, could not get gun out while seated, stood up and then drew while shooter was yelling "drop it", "drop it", and got shot/killed.

 

[Kar98]

You see what you see.

I think the rest of us see a guy who had a shotgun pointed at him from a few feet, knew he had to draw/shoot, could not get gun out while seated, stood up and then drew while shooter was yelling "drop it", "drop it", and got shot/killed.

If nothing else, it served to keep the perp occupied and focused for a bit giving the other guy the chance to draw, focus and place his shot.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Right. But not choosing one method between all these involve breaking the cardinal rule of you must always carry the same place all the time. So pick one way and stick to it. I’m not going to choose purse carry as my main way to carry.

I’m not going to dress like a guy every day of my life. I DO normally carry OWB at 7:30 with a cover garment. But to commit to that uniform every day of my life, ugh.

I’m just going to have to break the rule of never changing up the carry position.

I carry right hip, mostly OWB, but sometimes IWB, they are close enough to not significantly alter my draw. When I wear a shoulder rig, yes, big change, but I practice with it and its easy to get while sitting

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[cycleguy2300]

If nothing else, it served to keep the perp occupied and focused for a bit giving the other guy the chance to draw, focus and place his shot.

Yes, it did.

He acted with courage and faced the threat. Nothing can take away from that...

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