I have mixed feelings on this....

[cycleguy2300]

<>

“on scene of a reported violent disturbance/assault’’

No, the decedent was in his own home, minding his own business, on the phone with his GF. Just how was he supposed to know any of that ?

Which is were people said they heard what sounded to them like a violent assault/disturbance...

I don’t share your opinion, and I doubt that many on here do, either.

I refused my SGT's order to wear a mask, as the reat of my shift yelled at me that the fight wasnt worth it. It was worth it to me and I dgaf if I am the only one saying something if I believe I am right. If I am speaking as an expert I am not going to temper my posts for the sake of popularity.

I am told by those who investigate these things that virtually every criminal home invasion starts with loud knocking and ‘’Police; Open-Up!”

I have yet to see a home invasion that wasn't a drug rip /thug-on-thug... and dont recall any of them where they yelled about being police.

We all watched the warrant-servicing HPD Officer’s murder, by full auto fire through a door, a couple years back, and were horrified.

But that doesn’t justify LEO’s going around murdering innocent Citizens in their own homes. PERIOD !

Of course not, but this situation was 1/10th - 1/5th of a second from the deputy being shot. I truly believe had the deputy not recognized the threat and responded to the threat presented correctly, he would have been the one who was shot.

And, I am one who supports our Police, by more than lip service.

And it is certainly appreciated and a disagreement about facts and circumstances shouldn't call that into question.

leVieux

<>[/QUOTE]



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[cbp210]

My advice for people in this situation. If you feel there is a threat outside do not open the door.

 

[cycleguy2300]

the victim didn’t know it was a police officer responding to a DV call. Hard to believe that we are this far into the thread and it still needs to be pointed out that the victims POV was different from the officers.

Deadly force is justified from the user's reasonable perspective, not the dead guy who is only a victim of his own bad judgment.


Why open a door to a public area displaying a gun in hand? L
When are you allowed to display a firearm in public?

I someone on the street behind you shouts "police stop" (and you hear something ambiguous but recognize it was directed to you) Can you draw and turn so long as you keep it low (for now)?

If a delivery guy (pizza, amazon take your pick) knocked and he answered with a gun in hand just as he did for the officer and the delivery called, absent other circumstances I'd write it articulating PC 22.07Terroristic Threat which light edited for reading states:

(a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to:

(1) cause a reaction of any type to his threat by an official or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies;

(2) place any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury;

(6) influence the conduct or activities of a political subdivision of the state.

I can be in my own home, yet threaten somone outside of it with a firearm... being in your own home, even with a door open affords you a few protection, but if I am visiting a friend and little private citizen knocks on the wrong door or knocks delivering a package and this guy pulled that stunt flashing his gun, I'd not have one problem with articulating why the shooting would be justified or why an arrest under 22.07 was gtg.


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[cycleguy2300]

As a former Florida LEO.... nah bro. There is nothing criminal about what the Airman did. Especially with the fact that in Florida, it is somewhat common for folks to claim their police during a home invasion.

Home Invasion By Fake Cops Leaves Family Terrified

Miami-Dade Police are searching for two men they say terrorized a home Friday morning by pretending to be police officers.

www.cbsnews.com

https://wsvn.com/news/local/police-investigate-southwest-miami-dade-home-invasion/

The issue in Florida is simple. Police are drilled into during their training that anyone with a gun is bad. That needs to damn stop. We have an inalienable right to keep and bear arms and that right has been enumerated multiple times now in the US Supreme Court.

But Florida LE continues to harass law-abiding citizens and sometimes that harassment results in deadly consequences.

I don't know how they train yall in Florida, but "man with gun = bad" is not the case at all here. Cops may fall into that model because its accurate most of the time, but no one I work with and no training I've had is anywhere close to "has gun > shoot"

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[wiredgeorge]

Feel free to provide facts, law or case law that contradict me if I'm so wrong...

But you won't because you can't

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You fell into the hands of a troll once again by responding to a childish insult. A10ni is a troll. Adds nothing to the site and only perpetuates already overly drawn out threads by tossing an insult or two and having someone else take the bait.

 

[cycleguy2300]

You fell into the hands of a troll once again by responding to a childish insult. A10ni is a troll. Adds nothing to the site and only perpetuates already overly drawn out threads by tossing an insult or two and having someone else take the bait.

I know he and havok are little more than trolls, but since they are allowed to spread ignorance, I feel it needs correction lest others start to believe them.

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[Miami_JBT]

I don't know how they train yall in Florida, but "man with gun = bad" is not the case at all here. Cops may fall into that model because its accurate most of the time, but no one I work with and no training I've had is anywhere close to "has gun > shoot"

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Florida is notorious for police thinking anyone with a firearm is a bad guy. And part of that is the legal system. Florida's entire legal code regarding firearms is written in a manner that possession of a firearm is a criminal act with certain listed limited exemptions which are only affirmative defenses.

This stems from Jim Crow era bigotry.

As such, there is a mindset in training that anyone with a gun is a bad guy. This is doubly so since FL still bans openly carrying of a firearm.

Personally, as a cop, I've been held at gun point simply because another officer saw my pistols while I was off-duty.

I was riding my motorcycle and the t-shirt covering it was flapping in the wind while driving on the expressway and keeping up with the flow of traffic. The officer slammed on his brakes, lit me up, and pulled me over at gun point. He flat out stated that he would have arrested me if I weren't a cop.

Hell, you had a father arrested in his own yard while he was defending his daughter from an aggressive pitbull because they saw he had a holstered gun in his pants. You had Florida LE arrest a blind man reporting to jury duty because they thought his seeing-eye-cane was a gun. Heck, you had Florida LE shoot a healthcare worker who was lying proned out on the ground because the mentally handicapped man he was caring for had a toy firetruck and the police thought that was a gun!

 

[innominate]

Of course not, but this situation was 1/10th - 1/5th of a second from the deputy being shot. I truly believe had the deputy not recognized the threat and responded to the threat presented correctly, he would have been the one who was shot.



And it is certainly appreciated and a disagreement about facts and circumstances shouldn't call that into question.

leVieux

<>

Do you really think the airman was going to shoot the officer? I realize we can not know what the airman was going to do but I don't think he was going to fire on the officer. But we'll never know. I get your stance on this incident and the reasons for it. It's just the first I've seen you say you think the airman would have shot the officer.

 

[TreyG-20]

"man with gun = bad" is not the case at all here. Cops may fall into that model because its accurate most of the time

You believe it's accurate to say that "man with gun = bad most of the time? So most of us who carry are bad? We should be shot for carrying? Are most all cops bad because they carry guns? Is that accurate? Or only us civilians?

That train of thought that most men with gun= bad is really terrifying.

 

[cycleguy2300]

You believe it's accurate to say that "man with gun = bad most of the time? So most of us who carry are bad? We should be shot for carrying? Are most all cops bad because they carry guns? Is that accurate? Or only us civilians?

That train of thought that most men with gun= bad is really terrifying.

There is a lot more to it than that, but we dont generally get called to just a normal joe who happens to have a gun. We get called when they are doing something they shouldn't with the gun or sometimes its not related to the gun at all and its found after an arrest...

Watching the video for the first time, knowing why the deputy was there I did expect the airman to shoot. We can never know if it was a tragic mistake or if he just got beaten to the punch...



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[Sasquatch]

You believe it's accurate to say that "man with gun = bad most of the time? So most of us who carry are bad? We should be shot for carrying? Are most all cops bad because they carry guns? Is that accurate? Or only us civilians?

That train of thought that most men with gun= bad is really terrifying.

The difference is that the airman has his gun in hand, whereas normal people going about their business carrying a gun have their gun holstered on their body.

Totality of circumstances are key.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I answer my door with gun in hand, behind my leg.

 

[TreyG-20]

The difference is that the airman has his gun in hand, in his home.

Totality of circumstances are key.

Fixed it for you.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Fixed it for you.

This isn't a typical home and a front yard... this is an apartment where the front door opens to a common area.

Someone flashing their gun at their front gate to someone on the sidewalk is the approximate equivalent here.

There are certainly times when it could be appropriate or justified, but under normal circumstances a reasonable person seeing it would probably (and understandably) find it alarming and threatening (of serious bodily injury)...

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[leVieux]

There is a lot more to it than that, but we dont generally get called to just a normal joe who happens to have a gun. We get called when they are doing something they shouldn't with the gun or sometimes its not related to the gun at all and its found after an arrest...

Watching the video for the first time, knowing why the deputy was there I did expect the airman to shoot. We can never know if it was a tragic mistake or if he just got beaten to the punch...



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<>

OK, you are now “projecting”.

Why on earth would the Airman shoot a policeman ?

As best as can be told now, the Airman wasn’t even aware of any “disturbance” nor presence of Police !

<>

 

[TreyG-20]

There are certainly times when it could be appropriate or justified,

And there it is. Someone pounding on the door in a shithole apartment would absolutely justify someone arming themselves.

I've have been in this exact senerio when I was a young E4 living in a crackhead infested apartment complex in Killeen. Cops pounding on my door late at night while me and my girlfriend are watching a movie in the bedroom. I didn't hear a single person announce themselves. Just sounded like my door getting kicked in. I grabbed my bedside gun and went to the door. Luckily I could see a squad car in the parking lot. They had step off to the side of the peephole out of view as well. If I hadn't seen the cars, I would not have thought it was the cops. I cracked the door open, gun still in hand, but out view and that is when they announced themselves. They were looking for a subject with a warrant. Thankfully they didn't attempt to gain entry. Shit wouldn't have worked the way it did.

 

[cycleguy2300]

<>

OK, you are now “projecting”.

Why on earth would the Airman shoot a policeman ?

As best as can be told now, the Airman wasn’t even aware of any “disturbance” nor presence of Police !

<>

Why would he answer the door flashing a gun to a cop?

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[cycleguy2300]

And there it is. Someone pounding on the door in a shithole apartment would absolutely justify someone arming themselves.

I've have been in this exact senerio when I was a young E4 living in a crackhead infested apartment complex in Killeen. Cops pounding on my door late at night while me and my girlfriend are watching a movie in the bedroom. I didn't hear a single person announce themselves. Just sounded like my door getting kicked in. I grabbed my bedside gun and went to the door. Luckily I could see a squad car in the parking lot. They had step off to the side of the peephole out of view as well. If I hadn't seen the cars, I would not have thought it was the cops. I cracked the door open, gun still in hand, but out view and that is when they announced themselves. They were looking for a subject with a warrant. Thankfully they didn't attempt to gain entry. Shit wouldn't have worked the way it did.

Cracking the door keeping your gun available but discrete sounds like the right way to do it if you must. Its what I do AFTER checking the peep hole and still want to have a tool handy.

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[TreyG-20]

Time is irrelevant. Everyone has different schedules. The setting is most important. I was never at ease when I lived in an apartment because of activities taking place just outside my door. Obviously the Airmen felt the same.

There are plenty of reasons to think someone may be asleep. Everyone has different schedules and sleeps at different times. As for hearing the officer? Hearing loss, the walls and doors in-between them, watching TV or listening to music, sleeping and many more reasonable reasons you can't hear what someone clearly says outside from inside your home. I certainly didn't hear the officers in my case.

Your third paragraph is just an outrageous take and not worth responding to, but the part about how even you admit to open the door to your home with a gun in hand on occasion is really just SMDH.

 

[TreyG-20]

Time is irrelevant. Everyone has different schedules. The setting is most important. I was never at ease when I lived in an apartment because of activities taking place just outside my door. Obviously the Airmen felt the same.

There are plenty of reasons to think someone may be asleep. Everyone has different schedules and sleeps at different times. As for hearing the officer? Hearing loss, the walls and doors in-between them, watching TV or listening to music, sleeping and many more reasonable reasons you can't hear what someone clearly says outside from inside your home. I certainly didn't hear the officers in my case.

Your third paragraph is just an outrageous take and not worth responding to, but the part about how even you admit to open the door to your home with a gun in hand on occasion is really just SMDH.

Most of this won't make sense now that the post I was responding to is mostly deleted. Probably a good call to delete it though. It was bad take after bad take.