I have mixed feelings on this....

[Sasquatch]

Too bad the Judge is making a political decision on bail.........

He is not a threat to the public and not a flight risk, imho......

another judge pandering to the outrage mob.

Its unlikely given the political climate nationwide - even in red states - that a cop gets a fair trial when prosecutors decide that political expediency is more important than actually abiding the law. Even our own SCOTUS has cowered to the woke mobs instead of doing what's right. If they had done their jobs, the last four years would've turned out quite different, I think. Even further back, if we want to look at previous administrations.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Mistake,

“CycleGuy” is pro LEO, full-time Texas LEO / Police w/ military experience.

He is a great Guy, we just disagree on this particular situation.

Very few non-criminal Citizens wish to give our LEO’s trouble.

leVieux

<>

I'm a second gen cop, who worked uniform patrol, IA, SRO, protective operations, ERT, and plainclothes investigations. Also enlisted too before I was a cop.

Bad cops are bad cops. Simple as that. They shouldn't be coddled, have their egos stroked, etc.... When cops do bad, they need to be made examples of.

 

[cycleguy2300]

cycleguy2300 is absolutely correct......................action beats reaction........initial contact, the Airman had the advantage over the Deputy. I get it.......if he had nefarious intent...........

The only question in my mind is.............

Was the Deputy reasonable in believing the Airman was going to shoot him and he must shoot first to stop the threat.....

Was the Airman acting in a way that should have been interpreted as an immediate deadly threat?

I don't know, I wasn't there.......and neither was anyone else...............I can see both sides......it is not clear cut from either side......and anyone claiming otherwise is wrong, imho.......one's opinion does not = fact until all facts have been heard. No one here knows all the facts...............

Like I said, which ever way the Jury decides....I can accept...........

When I was a USA Cycling official, some of the best advice I ever heard was:
"The rules are black and white, but racing always takes place in the grey area between the rules"

Use of force is never black or white, it is always grey. Sometimes darker, sometimes lighter... Its why courts have been careful to not attempt the use of hindsight and what the person (in this case an officer) reasonably believed at the moment force was used.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

 

[Miami_JBT]

cycleguy2300 is absolutely correct......................action beats reaction........initial contact, the Airman had the advantage over the Deputy. I get it.......if he had nefarious intent...........

The only question in my mind is.............

Was the Deputy reasonable in believing the Airman was going to shoot him and he must shoot first to stop the threat.....

Was the Airman acting in a way that should have been interpreted as an immediate deadly threat?

I don't know, I wasn't there.......and neither was anyone else...............I can see both sides......it is not clear cut from either side......and anyone claiming otherwise is wrong, imho.......one's opinion does not = fact until all facts have been heard. No one here knows all the facts...............

Like I said, which ever way the Jury decides....I can accept...........

In FL, they beat it into people's skulls that "Non-Cop With Gun = Bad Guy" and leave it at that. Heck, in North Miami, you had a cop shoot a guy who was proned out.

The guy shot was a mental healthcare worker who was trying to get a severely autistic man off the streets. The cop who shot the mental healthcare worker, believed that the autistic man was holding a firearm. It was a toy firetruck. Multiple officers on scene said it was a toy, witnesses said it was a toy, the mental healthcare worker said it was a toy.

The officer who pulled the trigger didn't care. He had to get that itched scratched and cranked off a round with his AR.

 

[Miami_JBT]

The other side of the coin are officers that don't think people will react negatively towards law enforcement.
Cases in point:
The officer who responded to a shots fired call in Minneapolis, went running up to a guy laying in the street, who happened to be the perp, and got shot for his efforts.

Or here in San Antonio, back in '89, when a buddy of mine went to a possible break-in, walked up to the two possible perps, without even having his weapon drawn. The jumped him, took control of his .357, and shot him in the groin.
He never finished his shift that night.

Back in my hometown in Wisconsin, late '70s, the husband of my wife's friend went on a domestic. He was known as a hard ass prick, but whatever, the perp was trying to leave in his truck, when he walked up to him. The perp pulled his pistol, and that officer didn't finish his shift either.

Moral of the story ?
In this day & age, one should always be operating in condition orange.
Police officers going on a call should be in condition red !
Maybe they should have more training to handle these scenarios, maybe they should have more evaluation on how they react to life or death encounters, maybe some shouldn't be on the force at all (DEI hires).

Don't know if I could handle the job...

I was first on scene when MDPD Ofc. Somohano was killed. He was ambushed through the door. In the end, that didn't justify me treating every citizen I encountered afterwards like Shawn LaBeet (Somohano's killer).

There are certain inherent risks that come with the badge. Some cops would love for the Constitution to be outright repealed to make their jobs easier and safer.

Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Miami_JBT]

another judge pandering to the outrage mob.

Its unlikely given the political climate nationwide - even in red states - that a cop gets a fair trial when prosecutors decide that political expediency is more important than actually abiding the law. Even our own SCOTUS has cowered to the woke mobs instead of doing what's right. If they had done their jobs, the last four years would've turned out quite different, I think. Even further back, if we want to look at previous administrations.

The FL Panhandle is about as pro-LE and Pro-Mil as you can get. It is deep red Republican country. There is no rage mob there like in Minnesota or elsewhere.

What you do have is a community of a lot of prior military, who's seen combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, who's dealt with a large civilian populace that was heavily armed, and they had the restraint to not smoke-check every person who had a weapon near them/in their possession.

 

[Mohawk600]

Remind me not to move to Florida

 

[Miami_JBT]

Remind me not to move to Florida

We aren't the Gunshine State but everyone thinks we are. Sure, a decade or two ago, we were better than Texas. But now we're just slightly better than Democrat states these days.

 

[Havok1]

In FL, they beat it into people's skulls that "Non-Cop With Gun = Bad Guy" and leave it at that. Heck, in North Miami, you had a cop shoot a guy who was proned out.

View attachment 470605

The guy shot was a mental healthcare worker who was trying to get a severely autistic man off the streets. The cop who shot the mental healthcare worker, believed that the autistic man was holding a firearm. It was a toy firetruck. Multiple officers on scene said it was a toy, witnesses said it was a toy, the mental healthcare worker said it was a toy.

The officer who pulled the trigger didn't care. He had to get that itched scratched and cranked off a round with his AR.

I seem to remember this guy asked the officer why he shot him and the officer said he didn’t know.

 

[Sasquatch]

The FL Panhandle is about as pro-LE and Pro-Mil as you can get. It is deep red Republican country. There is no rage mob there like in Minnesota or elsewhere.

What you do have is a community of a lot of prior military, who's seen combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, who's dealt with a large civilian populace that was heavily armed, and they had the restraint to not smoke-check every person who had a weapon near them/in their possession.

Outrage mobs are not singularly local. People will travel to protest, especially the unemployed leftists and the paid protesters that seem to be at every major event. Even in "deep red Republican country" you can find the outraged lefties that will dox judges and threaten to burn and loot. Its 2024, nothing is solely local anymore, and the call to arms can be sent instantly. High profile cases like this will draw attention and threats from outside if certain groups are not appeased.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I seem to remember this guy asked the officer why he shot him and the officer said he didn’t know.

It was a Charlie Foxtrot for sure.

Outrage mobs are not singularly local. People will travel to protest, especially the unemployed leftists and the paid protesters that seem to be at every major event. Even in "deep red Republican country" you can find the outraged lefties that will dox judges and threaten to burn and loot. Its 2024, nothing is solely local anymore, and the call to arms can be sent instantly. High profile cases like this will draw attention and threats from outside if certain groups are not appeased.

Lefties don't give a damn about an Airman. He was a member of the very institution they hate, the armed forces. And the FL panhandle really is conductive to such issues like that. There's nothing there to support such a leftist movement. I know, because the panhandle was my jurisdiction for five years.

 

[wiredgeorge]

another judge pandering to the outrage mob.

Its unlikely given the political climate nationwide - even in red states - that a cop gets a fair trial when prosecutors decide that political expediency is more important than actually abiding the law. Even our own SCOTUS has cowered to the woke mobs instead of doing what's right. If they had done their jobs, the last four years would've turned out quite different, I think. Even further back, if we want to look at previous administrations.

Here is the issue from that AP article... "The fatal shooting of the airman at his off-base apartment in the Florida Panhandle was one of a growing list of killings of Black people by law enforcement in their own homes as they’re going about their day. Fortson’s death also renewed debate over whether Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law has fostered a “shoot first” climate of vigilantism in which gun owners operate with impunity in killing largely Black people."

Are they saying the LEO who shot the airman was a vigilanty? If I were a LEO and someone approached me with a firearm it would certainly get my attention and am not sure if I wouldn't do the same as the LEO especially if responding to a very unpredictable domestic call. This prosecution seems to be overly influenced by the "poor black people" reasoning to some degree. Why did the AP need to play the race card?

 

[Sasquatch]

Why did the AP need to play the race card?

Wouldn't be a modern AP article if they didn't. AP has lost credibility as a pure news organization long ago.

 

[leVieux]

<>

The question here was never if CycleGuy was a bad Guy nor a bad Cop.

He is neither.

The issue here was simply if the Eglin Airman shoot was inappropriate.

To most of us here, it was unjustified.

CycleGuy, being a full-time career LEO, was arguing that it was justified.

We did not question CycleGuy’s integrity.

I took the side of the non-LEO “civilian”, who by all accounts was unaware of what was said to have been going-on outside his door, and answered gun-in-hand, pointed to floor, non-threatening.

For background: 2 of our Houston neighbors were butchered in a home-invasion after calling 911; and, we have had two recent felon-in-possession prowler/burglars at our home here in a semi-rural area. I know b/c both were caught & arrested.

Please keep things civil & respectful.

leVieux

<>

 

[Miami_JBT]

<>

The question here was never if CycleGuy was a bad Guy nor a bad Cop.

He is neither.

The issue here was simply if the Eglin Airman shoot was inappropriate.

To most of us here, it was unjustified.

CycleGuy, being a full-time career LEO, was arguing that it was justified.

We did not question CycleGuy’s integrity.

I took the side of the non-LEO “civilian”, who by all accounts was unaware of what was said to have been going-on outside his door, and answered gun-in-hand, pointed to floor, non-threatening.

For background: 2 of our Houston neighbors were butchered in a home-invasion after calling 911; and, we have had two recent felon-in-possession prowler/burglars at our home here in a semi-rural area. I know b/c both were caught & arrested.

Please keep things civil & respectful.

leVieux

<>

I have worn the badge and been the first to responded to a 315 where a fellow cop was killed. I can state clear as day that I believe the deputy screwed the pooch when he smoke-checked the Airman and got his CONUS kill.

 

[leVieux]

I have worn the badge and been the first to responded to a 315 where a fellow cop was killed. I can state clear as day that I believe the deputy screwed the pooch when he smoke-checked the Airman and got his CONUS kill.

<>

I’m not disagreeing, only clarifying. . . .

<>

 

[benenglish]

What's your background?

Given that he's an honorable guy, I assume he'll spare you the embarrassment of actually answering that question.

 

[V-Tach]

Judge did the right thing, imho and let him out on Bond...............100K

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/roger-fortson-airman-shot/2024/08/29/id/1178422/

 

[Iowashooter]

an update on the Breonna Taylor case

Federal judge highlights the hazards of reckless drug war tactics

The ruling notes that Breonna Taylor’s death resulted from the "late-night, surprise manner of entry."

reason.com

A judge recently dismissed a couple of the federal charges against two former Louisville, Kentucky, police officers who instigated the 2020 drug raid that killed Breonna Taylor.