Why you can't give permission to carry a handgun on your property

[Renegade]

Just had lunch with one of the judges who is laughing about this thread, and who will probably go home and join just to comment....if he does, I excecpt he'll be banned for what he will have to say about it

Great. We have asked several times for someone to come along and cite relevant Case Law that overrides State Law. I can't see why he would be banned though.

So, if a person is leasing a piece or property on a hand shake between friends, then he or she couldn't carry openly carry on that property to, say, work around the garden? According to what Renegade is saying he or she would be guilty of a crime for doing so, even though he has been given the right by the property owner to enjoy, use and control that property.

No,according to the law, which Renegade agrees with, Leasee is clearly in control of the premises, thus they can carry. If you want to debate that is great, but do not distort what I say or what the law says.

Ironically, I actually do LEASE a piece or property on a hand shake between friends. Although he calls it farming not gardening. He is clearly in control of those premises. He is free to do whatever the law allows.

Or maybe the agreement is the use of a piece of river front property for a BBQ for a family reunion...

The owner of the property is giving control over to the person, and the person then has the right to carry openly if he so chooses as the state allows a person to open carry on property they own or control.

Correct. As a landowner I have done all those things! The law I posted in my first post clearly says that:

(1) on the person ’s own premises or premises under the person ’s control; or

41 posts, but it looks like we are now all in agreement!

 

[Bithabus]

So, the solution is to put up targets and call it a shoot, even though no shooting will actually be done? Hell, if that's the case, I'll have a shoot at my house next weekend. I live behind Sea World in San Antonio. I can invite my district representative and Gov "I will but only if you will first" Perry.

That only works in places it is legal to have a shoot, obviously.

 

[Bithabus]

State law DOESN'T say it is illegal to open carry on property you control. You're missing the point that the district judges and DA pointed out, but I guess I've not made clear enough to you...this is a PROPERTY LAW issue, not a GUN LAW issue.

The Law can not, and DOES NOT tell me WHO I can grant control of property I own and control to for their use for any LEGAL purpose...and since it is LEGAL to open carry ON PROPERTY YOU OWN OR CONTROL, IF CONTROL HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME BY WAY OF AN INVITATION TO BE ON SOMEONES PROPERTY WITH THE SPECIFIC STATEMENT OF "PLEASE FEEL FREE TO OPEN CARRY", THERE IS NO VIOLATION OF THE GUN LAWS, AND FOR LEO TO TRY TO MAKE IT A VIOLATION THEY WOULD FIRST HAVE TO VIOLATE PROPERTY LAWS AND THE RIGHTS OF PROPERTY OWNERS TO ALLOW ACCESS TO AND FREE USE OF PROPERTY THEY LEGALLY OWN AND CONTROL TO ANYONE ELSE FOR ANY ACTIVITY THAT WOLD BE LEGAL ON PROPERTY THEY THEY OWN OR CONTROL, RATHER BY VERBAL OR WRITEN AGREEMENT OR INVITATION.

There is NO restriction in property laws, or the rights of property owners, to use property they own or control for ANY legal activity, OR TO ASSIGN USEAGE/CONTROL TO ANYONE THEY SO CHOICE FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME THEY SO CHOICE FOR ANY LEGAL ACTIVITY THEY SO CHOOSE.

Your aurgument isn't with me by the way...it's with the law, which you have completely misinterupted.

The point you are missing is this: inviting someone to a BBQ does NOT give them control over your property.

 

[Bithabus]

So...I can then give a guest "control", which would allow him to carry. Nothing states that it's a restricted or limited "permission".

Yes you can give a guest control. "Control" actually means something. Do they have a key or the code to your gate? Do they watch the property when you are away? Inviting strangers to a BBQ is not a transfer of control.

 

[Bithabus]

He doesn't.




Just had lunch with one of the judges who is laughing about this thread, and who will probably go home and join just to comment....if he does, I excecpt he'll be banned for what he will have to say about it!

Hopefully the Judge will be knowledgeable and he will be able to quote case law instead of offering opinion which is not grounded in law.

Of course you can lease your property and transfer control that way. Having a BBQ for 20 guests does not mean you are leasing them your property.

 

[Bithabus]

OR TO ASSIGN USEAGE/CONTROL TO ANYONE THEY SO CHOICE FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME THEY SO CHOICE FOR ANY LEGAL ACTIVITY THEY SO CHOOSE.

.

Here is your misunderstanding. Usage and control are not the same.

 

[West Texas]

Here is your misunderstanding. Usage and control are not the same.

Usage AND/OR Control

 

[Bithabus]

Usage AND/OR Control

There is no mention of "usage" in the law.

I want you to be right about this, but without something on the books substantiating your position we have to rely on what the law actually says. I am hoping the Judge will swoop in and quote case law.

 

[txinvestigator]

Nevermind..........

 

[MR Redneck]

Sounds like some laws need to be changed to me!
I for one wouldnt ever tell a man what to do with his property as long as he aint bothering me.
This law is as sorry as Ann Richards was!
What business is it of the states if I allow people to bring their guns to my place?
None, that what...

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I think one thing we can all agree on is there are far too many laws and regulations, and the ones we have are far too complicated. We don't NEED that many laws, and they don't need to be that complicated.

 

[MR Redneck]

I think one thing we can all agree on is there are far too many laws and regulations, and the ones we have are far too complicated. We don't NEED that many laws, and they don't need to be that complicated.

Yea, how in the world can you be a law abiding citizen when you cant even figure out what the laws say's.
The problem I got, is all the stuff I like has a law against it!

 

[TexasR.N.]

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." ~ Tacitus

Publius Cornelius Tacitus was a senator and a historian of the Roman Empire.
Publius Cornelius Tacitus quotes and quotes by Publius Cornelius Tacitus -Page : 1

Craig

 

[texas_teacher]

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." ~ Tacitus

Couldn't have said it better myself...

Here's a couple more that seem to apply to the situation...

If people behaved like governments, you'd call the cops. ~Kelvin Throop

And my personal favorite...

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ~P.J. O'Rourke

 

[TheDan]

It also exempts:

(2)is traveling

This is interesting... So if I decide to walk from Louisiana (an open carry state) to New Mexico (an open carry state), then I can do so with a handgun on my hip?

 

[Mic]

One thing to think about is that several adults here are reading the same laws and arguing their points much like a prosecutor and a defense lawyer would do. Unless there is case law, we have nothing else to go on. As with everything, you are in the hands of a judge.

You might well wind up in the hands of a judge like WT's buddy. But you might be in Austin. May not get the same response.

 

[West Texas]

honestly, I've heard the arugments being made and talked to a couple of people in postion to know and it comes down to this:

First of all, the law, ANY law, requires you to use a little common sence, logic and reasoning.

The point that is being missed is this is NOT about gun laws at all, but real estate law, and what a person can and can not do with his own property. I can open carry on my own property. You can open carry on YOUR own property. So let's take the next step here, and then we find that party "A" can give over the right to party "B" to use property owned by party "A" for any activity that would be legal for party "B" to conduct on property party "B" owned.

We are not talking about cooking meth, or anything that is illegal no matter where you do it, we are talking about an activity that is LEGAL, to openly carry on property that we own.

There are no exceptions to this in real estate law. There can be exceptions made in a verbal or written lease between the two parties, but that is not what we are talking about.

If this were NOT fact of law, then it would not be posiable for ANYONE who did not own property to be in possision of a firearm, much less to carry it openly, according to the way you are trying to interput the law.

By allowing a guest to come on to your property, and you have stated that you don't mind if they have a weapon carried in the open, then there is not an issue. There really isn't an issue if you DON'T state it, but good taste and social graces would keep most of us from just showing up at our buddies house with a .45 hanging off our hip.

Internet Lawyers who's only training is the ability to read and use google can, and do, interpet things differently than someone that has gone to law school and passed the bar examine. Kinda like Jailhouse Lawyers who are always finding majic loopholes that they insist prove they are innocent...you guys are just trying to make guys guilty.

I thought we were all on the same side and wanting to reduce or eliminate restrictions, not invent them!

If you think that you would be breaking the law to open carry at a buddiies backyard BBQ, then don't do it. If you are going to be a jerk about it and call the cops just to try to prove a point, your not the kinda guy I want to have around me anyway. If I attend this BBQ and someone decides to to that very thing, then I know who I will call should there be an officer that wants to issue citations or make arrests and a prosecuter who wants to try to test this, and have every idea that after a sitting judge with 20 years on the state bench and 10 years on the fed bench shows up and presents the case then there will be very clear case law as to who can say who can do what on who's property and when they can do it.

We really have made this a MUCH bigger deal than it should have been. If you would like to speak to the judges I spoke with, PM me and I'll be happy to try to make the connection for you...but I don't know that I would want to be on the other end of the phone when the conversation is over.

As it was put to me today, think of aruging over crap like this on the internet like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, all you did was beat a bunch of retards and cripples.

(and before THAT comment gets anyones panties in a wad, I have a disabled stepson who told me that today, and he and the buddy with CP he was with thinks that quote is funny as hell!)

 

[RetArmySgt]

Easy fix to this problem, who ever is having the BBQ lease the property to a group of people whose alias, forum names, is listed for the cost of one dollar (total not per) to be refunded at end of party. then it is a leased property with multiple officers of said property that can do as they please on property under their control.

 

[randmplumbingllc]

Easy fix to this problem, who ever is having the BBQ lease the property to a group of people whose alias, forum names, is listed for the cost of one dollar (total not per) to be refunded at end of party. then it is a leased property with multiple officers of said property that can do as they please on property under their control.

Easier fix is to call PD and ask to speak to someone on the matter. Then get their name, badge # and phone extention.

 

[Renegade]

Easiest fix is to not worry about it, just like I do not worry about shooting machine guns even though Texas Law says they are illegal and I could get arrested for possessing them.