txinvestigator
TGT Addict
What would THAT do?
Why you can't give permission to carry a handgun on your property
- Thread starter Renegade
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
What would THAT do?
Burt Gummer
Active Member
Not sure if this has been stated in all of the posts but regarding misdemeanor offenses, you would need someone to be listed as a victim for an arrest.
As an example; Wal Mart calls with a shoplifter in custody. By the time Officer X gets there, loss prevention tells you they do not wish to prosecute or pursue Theft charges. They let Mr Stickfingers go. No arrest.
Subject A punches subject B in the mouth during a basketball game. Some passerby calls 9-1-1 and when Officer X arrives, both men say it was mutual and neither want to pursue any charges. They are not related and no chance of violence continuing. There is no offense of Assault without a victim (not including Family violence situations).
A landowner would have to be a victim in this misdemeanor UCW offense.
If somebody here has arrested for UCW on private property when the suspect was authorized to be there, let me know.
As an example; Wal Mart calls with a shoplifter in custody. By the time Officer X gets there, loss prevention tells you they do not wish to prosecute or pursue Theft charges. They let Mr Stickfingers go. No arrest.
Subject A punches subject B in the mouth during a basketball game. Some passerby calls 9-1-1 and when Officer X arrives, both men say it was mutual and neither want to pursue any charges. They are not related and no chance of violence continuing. There is no offense of Assault without a victim (not including Family violence situations).
A landowner would have to be a victim in this misdemeanor UCW offense.
If somebody here has arrested for UCW on private property when the suspect was authorized to be there, let me know.
This does not even pass the sniff test.
If true, who is listed as victim for a DWI? Possession of controlled substance? Disorderly and countless other misdemeanors?
I think you are confusing the requirement the MD offense be committed in the presence of the LEO. But I am not an LEO so TXI would have to sound off on this.
ETA:
Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
(b) A peace officer may arrest an offender without a warrant for any offense committed in his presence or within his view.
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
There does not need to be a victim to have a warrantless arrest for an offense commited within the presence or view of a ppeace officer in Texas.
When a peace officer transports a shoplifter to jail for an offense that was not observed by the peace officer, the shoplifter was already under arrest. He was arrested by the employee of the Wal Mart (for your example) under the CCP to prevent the consequences of theft.
Even if one wanted to press charges, the officer would have to write a report and let the victim pursue charges. The LEO would not be able to make a lawful arrest under such situation. Had the LEO observed the assault, he could make the arrest.
Really? So if a person carries a handgun into a private store without a CHL the store owner would have to somehow be listed as a "victim" in order for a a Peace Officer to make a UCW arrest? That is just incorrect.
bigdognkat
New Member
Ill tell you what ? Move to arizona, we have a newly passed law that allows anyone man or woman to carry a conceled weapon of any size or caliber, with out a license as a form of personel defense!! Now if we only had a Death Penalty law like Texas has wed be damn near as civilized as you all are!!
this is weirdest legal thread yet if you don't understand the texas penal code and code of criminal procedure which is really simple there's another book you can get called elements of a crime get it then you can figure out who did what wrong.
He's not carrying the firearm in the public or in plain view. He's actually in his place of residence, since he was legally able to enter the premises.
The difference is when you stand outside of the house, in plain view, that it becomes an issue.
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
Actually it being not in plain view is not the issue. If he carries the handgun on or about his person and he is not on HIS OWN premises or PREMISES UNDER HIS CONTROL, then he is in violation.
That said, I am not sure that a person standing at your safe and "holding" your gun temporarily constitutes "carry", which is a more stringent definition than "possession". I would think that in such a case the person would be in possession, but not carrying on or about his person, meaning he is not in violation.
I think. lol
Just close your windows and the police will have no way of arresting you. If they don't see the "crime" then well ...
Our gun laws need to be smoothed over, and made more realistic.
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
Not in uniform anyway. Maybe they'll go as new members and ignore the other fellows carrying because no one is causing any trouble and it's a stupid law. Then again, if their boss found out, they could get in trouble for not arresting everyone but the host. LOL
texas_teacher
Well-Known
Just like I doubt you'd find a law enforcement officer visiting a "lady of the night".
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
I was not referring to a cop "visiting" one of these events: but that is an interesting take on my post.
I was referring to an on-duty cop being at one of these events in a capacity to enforce the law.
<snicker> You can NOT be serious here.....are ya?!??? Crazy as it sounds, it happens!
Burt Gummer
Active Member
Technically YES you could arrest for UCW and the store owner or landowner could speak with the prosecution and show they were ok with it. My county is not a huge fan of prosecuting when the property owner is against the charges. Your county may not give a rats butt and the jury may still convict no matter what.
So YES, you could be arrested for UCW despite what the owner said. I could also arrest you for any other charge and you could sit in jail until the time expired for me to file the PC affidavit. Haw anybody here arrested someone for UCW? I would like to hear details.
I am not sure how many here have arrested and dealt with their supervisor or detectives who liason with the local judges but you generally run most arrests by an arrest review detective for approval. Our county and district judge liasons/detectives will tell you if the charges will not be signed by the judge. When you call them with a UCW arrest on property and the land owner invited the defendant, they will have to weigh whether the county judge will sign an affidavit. Techincally you could arrest them on scene and they can sit in jail until the 24 hours
The biggest thing which will determine if someone will get arrested for UCW is the responding officer. Their policies, supervisors, and their experience with the charge. I personally would thoroughly investigate a UCW case if I observed it but with a cooperating land owner or store owner, my arrest review detectives would be a 50/50 on whether they would recommend the arrest.
They know what the judges wish to see and thought you CAN follow Penal Code to the letter, you will find the "spirit" of the law to often overcome the "letter" of the law.
texas_teacher
Well-Known
Well there are always laws that need to be enforced... making sure that people aren't carrying when they are boozed off of their asses is a good one, making sure they're not driving in a similar condition is another, and probably making sure that there's no male nudity (p!ssing) on the roadside is a third...
I do understand you're not speaking about these laws in particular, but that's precisely my point. There are laws that are definitely more pertinent to the public safety spectrum.
