Ukraine invasion

[Younggun]

Agreed, but not that simple. There were many issues not resolved in that war. Total victory would have been better than they way it ended.

You cant subjugate a people they way Germany was after WW1 and it not blow up. You have to completely resolve differences or completely conquer then ASSIMILATE or forgive and move on.

Look at the 100 plus years of bullshit reconstruction caused after the civil war. Again I'm oversimplifying a complicated set of issues but I think the point is clear.

I don’t disagree. But the strict sanctions, requirement to pay the other nations back for the war, etc crippled the German economy and made life miserable. Probably could have gotten away with just the military restrictions.

All it took was one charismatic speaker to whip a downbeaten population in to a fury and give them people to blame. Yes, there were many factors, but most of it played in to the same end result of “blame them”. Hitler walked in and gave them someone to hate while preaching about bringing back the great Empire. So, we cripple the Russian economy for how long until the populace are 100% on board with going to war with anyone who stands in the way of bringing back the former “greatness”?


I’m not saying sanctions are completely wrong all the time, or even that they were wrong now (though they never seem to stop wars or invasions). I’m saying they can’t go on forever and there has to be a way out. Otherwise the population will suffer and that blame will end up creating hatred towards any nation taking part in the sanctions.


But I did oversimplify in my original comment. I don’t think the idea or lesson is incorrect though.

 

[popper]

Germany was sanctioned in to oblivion after WW1.
Nope, were required to pay reparations which they didn't. They were restricted to basically no military but secretly developed a large one - almost NO inspections. Keynes (economist) said payments would destroy Germany and was proved wrong - like bunch of his other theories. Aircraft engines and fuel were tested in auto racing by mercedes and autounion. After WWII Japan was restricted to only patrol boats. That was changed about 15 yrs ago.
You cant subjugate a people they way Germany was after WW1 - basically didn't happen. Yes, people were very poor but that just got the 'progressive' party started.
Edit: other than a trip to Germany yrs ago, I took 3 semesters of world history from an old GERMAN Prof and yes he was reluctant to talk about it much. But he was very strict. Some kids thought of doing a heil but decided otherwise. And yes IIRC he did have a small mustache.

 

[candcallen]

Well 3 semesters,

 

[ian]

Is this satire?

If not, what evidence is there to support this claim besides the fact that Hitler is Austrian and they lost the war?

Molotov ribbentrop pact.

The most obvious piece of evidence is the outcome of the war.

 

[Younggun]

Molotov ribbentrop pact.

The most obvious piece of evidence is the outcome of the war.

Losing the war isn’t evidence.

And the small and little known incident when Germany invaded Russia makes your claim come across as more than a little far fetched. In fact, pretty much every thing that happened makes your claim sound pretty far fetched. The only thing that actually fits is that the USSR ended up controlling half of Germany.


You could take the outcome of literally any event and say there was some nefarious plan to reach that outcome. But using the outcome as evidence of the plan is flawed.

 

[F350-6]

Saw Russia has been flying a nuclear bomber near the border with Ukraine now. They apparently still haven't figured out not to let the ships get too close to Ukraine. If they're not careful, there's going to be a nuclear bomber shot down soon too.

What's the record for most nukes lost in a month? I've read there may have been some on Russia's new submarine. Now they may add some more with a plane.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Walter Russell Meade’s column in tomorrow’s Journal hits the nail on the head.

“As the war exposes the darkness inherent in Mr. Putin’s regime, and as atrocities abroad and repression at home impress the mark of Cain ever more deeply on its brow, it is impossible not to hope for a Russian defeat. Nevertheless, caution is in order. Mr. Putin and those around him know that in Ukraine they aren’t fighting only for an adjustment of frontiers. They are fighting for their world, and it may be psychologically impossible for them to accept defeat until every measure, however ruthless, and every weapon, however heinous, has been brought into play.

For Vladimir Putin and the people around him, the stakes in Ukraine are almost infinitely great.”

Opinion | The End of Russia’s Empire?

Moscow has a stake in the Ukraine war that is greater than Putin’s career.

www.wsj.com

 

[ian]

Walter Russell Meade’s column in tomorrow’s Journal hits the nail on the head.

“As the war exposes the darkness inherent in Mr. Putin’s regime, and as atrocities abroad and repression at home impress the mark of Cain ever more deeply on its brow, it is impossible not to hope for a Russian defeat. Nevertheless, caution is in order. Mr. Putin and those around him know that in Ukraine they aren’t fighting only for an adjustment of frontiers. They are fighting for their world, and it may be psychologically impossible for them to accept defeat until every measure, however ruthless, and every weapon, however heinous, has been brought into play.

For Vladimir Putin and the people around him, the stakes in Ukraine are almost infinitely great.”

Opinion | The End of Russia’s Empire?

Moscow has a stake in the Ukraine war that is greater than Putin’s career.

www.wsj.com

You have to pity the Russian people. It would suck really bad to have a loser like Putin as your leader.

 

[ian]

Losing the war isn’t evidence.

And the small and little known incident when Germany invaded Russia makes your claim come across as more than a little far fetched. In fact, pretty much every thing that happened makes your claim sound pretty far fetched. The only thing that actually fits is that the USSR ended up controlling half of Germany.


You could take the outcome of literally any event and say there was some nefarious plan to reach that outcome. But using the outcome as evidence of the plan is flawed.

Russia tried to control its soviet subject states through strick rule, famine, gulags and war. After all that Russia still failed. That was the outcome. Even the planned socialist invasion from the east could make the soviet subject states like Russia.

 

[Grumps21]

You have to pity the Russian people. It would suck really bad to have a loser like Putin as your leader.

We have a loser president too....

 

[Darkpriest667]

We have a loser president too....

True but no matter what he can't be in office more than 6 more years.. Putin has been in charge of Russia for 23. Imagine having ANY of the last 5 presidents for 23 years. It would be a nightmare.

 

[gll]

Report from Patrick Lancaster:

Chechens and Russian Army Battle Azov and Ukraine on Mariupol Frontline



Battle for the Azovstal Plant and final control of Mariupol.

 

[kbaxter60]

It would suck really bad to have a loser like Putin as your leader.

Says someone who probably has Jotato as a leader.

 

[seeker_two]

You have to pity the Russian people. It would suck really bad to have a loser like Putin as your leader.

Is irony supposed to hurt this much?.....

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk

 

[ian]

We have a loser president too....

Not a mass murderering loser like putin.

 

[ian]

Says someone who probably has Jotato as a leader.

Yep. Jotato is a step up from Vladov Pootler.

 

[ian]

Is irony supposed to hurt this much?.....

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk

It must be painful to see the destruction your Fuhrer has caused. Millions of displaced people, thousands of dead citizens, thousands of dead Russians, entire cities bombed to the ground.

 

[Younggun]

It must be painful to see the destruction your Fuhrer has caused. Millions of displaced people, thousands of dead citizens, thousands of dead Russians, entire cities bombed to the ground.

WTH dude?

What has he said in any thread or at any point on this forum that gives even the smallest sliver of credibility to your post?

 

[ian]

Report from Patrick Lancaster:

Chechens and Russian Army Battle Azov and Ukraine on Mariupol Frontline



Battle for the Azovstal Plant and final control of Mariupol.

Poor Patrick. The guy is shell shocked into a stuper.

 

[ian]

WTH dude?

What has he said in any thread or at any point on this forum that gives even the smallest sliver of credibility to your post?

My bad. I was responding to the single comment I quoted. Mistook his comment as being pro-pootler.

Surely no one will deny pootlers murder and destruction in Ukraine is inexcusable.