Ukraine invasion

[candcallen]

You fund a plane.
I'll buy a sortie of fuel.
Pilots will line up to volunteer.

There are plenty of people lining up to do just that in Europe. Those countries should be doing this and allowing American pilots, former military pilots who want to, to volunteer would be helpful.

Ukraine and other local countries can easily win this. We don't even have to directly support Ukraine if that bothers people, although I think we should give them all the weapons they can shoot and support short of troops on the ground, we can support the countries providing weapons to Ukraine.

Look, it's best to give them stuff now to end this sooner rather than later.

None of this had to happen.

 

[Renegade]

Not sure, but the plan certainly fails if there is no runway. However, Soviet (which informed UKR) doctrine called for rugged aircraft operating off unimproved airfields and stretches of highway, resupplied by trucks and trains, with aircraft under camo netting off the road. This would not be too hard to do.

Mig-29 is rough. It has intakes on top so not to FOD. But the real issue is support around the A/C.

It also looks like Blinken might have been trying to shame them into sending them.

 

[Younggun]

Sad to see so many just accepting the media narratives about what is going-on there. . . . .

Who said anything about a media narrative?

Most of us have looked at multiple courses of information and drawn out own conclusions. Just because it’s different than yours doesn’t mean we are sitting for inches from the TV waiting for the next breaking news update.

I’m also not buying anything about some grand conspiracy. Far more easily and sensibly explained by the pure incompetence we see every day.


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[candcallen]

Still waiting for enlightenment.

 

[Tex62]

Still waiting for enlightenment.

Start with the color revolution by Obama and the CIA overthrowing a pro Russian Ukrainian government in 2014.

Followed by Graham and McCain gen’ing up war with Russia in Ukraine in 2016 and then the impeachment of Trump for not following through. See Tucker’s episode last night.

8 years of persecution of ethic Russians in Donbas. Rape, pillaging, killing, and shelling.

Insisting on NATO membership.

It’s obvious from the last 5 years that the elites have had a hard on for stirring up shit with Russia.

And now any dissent from the narrative is treated like dissent from the convid narratives. Shoot, even my church has taken sides.

With all the disinformation going about, color me skeptical. I pretty much agree with that MMA fighter from Arkansas that was asked his opinion.


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[leVieux]

So, since you cryptic post left you lots of wiggle room. Enlighten us please.

OK, fair enough; here goes:

I have long been exposed to military intelligence methods & issues by my late Father.

Putin has been ascribed or assigned various motives by others, but his actions were never irrational. He is described by insiders as a "devout' Christian, as supposedly Lavrov, Dmitry Medvedev, & even their predecessor Boris Yeltsin are.

I have a couple of friends who studied this particular "Donbas" issue & area closely for decades, and have been warning me that this was likely, for years. Their explanations don't favor what we are being given as reasons or Russian motivation.

Our government & media have LIED to us, increasingly and more openly since Obama first ran for office.

Now several independent Military "experts" are coming-out with observations that NATO's increasing undercover aggressive posturing against Russia have escalated to resemble planning for imminent attack.

Post-Soviet Russia has made only minor expansions around the exterior, explained as seeking a buffer. Russia itself has curtailed distant offshore military expansionism.

The main Donbas area is Ethnic Russian, their people want to be associated with Russia. Indeed, a large section was already held by "pro-Russian" Rebels. Many say that Ukraine & NATO were organizing a military "purge" of those citizens.

The current Ukrainian government surrounding Zelensky is the SAME bunch of crooks who bribed Biden, employed Hunter, and were exposed less than two years back by "Rudy' and Chanel Rion. Do we not recall ? Did we forget Ukrainian participation in WWII NAZI activities ?

Here in the U S, many of us "War Babies" and "Boomers" have long recognized Ike's warnings against the U S "Military-Industrial" Complex, and their never-ending warmongering shakedown of our economy. We "bought" the Korean War, but their explanations for 68,000 Americans dying in Vietnam, and their reasons for invading Iraq or extensive operations in Afghanistan still ring hollow to us.

Obama and Susan Rice are running our government via "deep state", political crooks, and the entire Clinton-Soros-democrat-media LIE MACHINE.

I now recognize a chilling pattern: "COVID", CHEAT to steal election, "lockdowns", forced "vaccinations", suppress real Justice, ramp-up deceitful propaganda, steal trillion$, now this. . . . . . . Remember that the Clintons, both Bushes, and Obama/Biden/Soros all are "Globalist One-World'ers".

There are two documented field reports from THIRD PARTY "media" observers that the Ukrainian Military was SHELLING its own civilian areas, killing its own Citizens.

Meanwhile, Putin is not allowing an "all-out" war with indiscriminate killing. The Russians are clearly taking or destroying nuclear facilities and military bases/airfields nearer their own border. If Russia intended to overrun Ukraine, the thing would be long over. It may be romantic or fit political purposes to tell of "brave Ukrainian civilians taking-up their AK's and stopping Russian advances"; but we all know that is wishful thinking. What we are seeing is careful Russian activity designed to minimize both defender casualties AND property destruction.

To wit, we repeatedly see cities under attack at night, with all their lights ON, and civilian traffic moving to-and-fro. Doesn't look like any REAL war to this old man.

To quote my late Intelligence Officer Father: "IGNORE what they say, but watch closely what they do!"

Let me make it clear that I am not exactly supporting all of the above yet. We can't really KNOW. But, it is making more sense than what we hear from our government and our media.

If the above is true and correct, and I say "IF", then it is past-time for Putin to take the World stage and EXPLAIN himself ! Oh wait, I just learned that Russian communications are being blocked to the rest of the World !

leVieux
.

 

[leVieux]

Start with the color revolution by Obama and the CIA overthrowing a pro Russian Ukrainian government in 2014.

Followed by Graham and McCain gen’ing up war with Russia in Ukraine in 2016 and then the impeachment of Trump for not following through. See Tucker’s episode last night.

8 years of persecution of ethic Russians in Donbas. Rape, pillaging, killing, and shelling.

Insisting on NATO membership.

It’s obvious from the last 5 years that the elites have had a hard on for stirring up shit with Russia.

And now any dissent from the narrative is treated like dissent from the convid narratives. Shoot, even my church has taken sides.

With all the disinformation going about, color me skeptical. I pretty much agree with that MMA fighter from Arkansas that was asked his opinion.


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The above coincides with what I am now hearing from multiple knowledgeable folks.

leVieux
.

 

[oldag]

Why do American young men have to go and fight to protect Europe from another madman? Aren’t t there enough European young men available for the task??

Sorry, call me skeptical about shedding blood for the political asshattery of a small group of billionaires.

Free country and all, including going to join some Foreign Legion, but I’d really like to know more about why this situation was created and allowed to fester into what it is today before we commit blood and fortune.


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If France had not helped us during the Revolutionary War, we would still be bowing to the Queen.

 

[oldag]

Sad to see so many just accepting the media narratives about what is going-on there. . . . .

Sad to see that some cannot look at history and the larger context, and then exercise common sense.

 

[Renegade]

If France had not helped us during the Revolutionary War, we would still be bowing to the Queen.

That does not answer his question.

The simple answer is we fight for others because it is in our long term best interests to confront evil asap

 

[oldag]

Start with the color revolution by Obama and the CIA overthrowing a pro Russian Ukrainian government in 2014.

Followed by Graham and McCain gen’ing up war with Russia in Ukraine in 2016 and then the impeachment of Trump for not following through. See Tucker’s episode last night.

8 years of persecution of ethic Russians in Donbas. Rape, pillaging, killing, and shelling.

Insisting on NATO membership.

It’s obvious from the last 5 years that the elites have had a hard on for stirring up shit with Russia.

And now any dissent from the narrative is treated like dissent from the convid narratives. Shoot, even my church has taken sides.

With all the disinformation going about, color me skeptical. I pretty much agree with that MMA fighter from Arkansas that was asked his opinion.


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The tinfoil is strong here.

 

[seeker_two]

One thing I hope we agree on......all the governments involved (including our own) are corrupt tyrants that are responsible for inflicting this suffering on all the civilians involved (including our own)......

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[Tex62]

The tinfoil is strong here.

Continue watching CNN and Good Morning America for your news…


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[Younggun]

That does not answer his question.

The simple answer is we fight for others because it is in our long term best interests to confront evil asap

I fully agree with this.


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[Younggun]

Start with the color revolution by Obama and the CIA overthrowing a pro Russian Ukrainian government in 2014.

Followed by Graham and McCain gen’ing up war with Russia in Ukraine in 2016 and then the impeachment of Trump for not following through. See Tucker’s episode last night.

8 years of persecution of ethic Russians in Donbas. Rape, pillaging, killing, and shelling.

Insisting on NATO membership.

It’s obvious from the last 5 years that the elites have had a hard on for stirring up shit with Russia.

And now any dissent from the narrative is treated like dissent from the convid narratives. Shoot, even my church has taken sides.

With all the disinformation going about, color me skeptical. I pretty much agree with that MMA fighter from Arkansas that was asked his opinion.


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The Russo-Ukrainian war started in 2014. In 2016 Russia took Crimea.

I don’t know how this is a matter of Graham and McCain ginning up war. It’s been an ongoing conflict for almost a decade.


Much like the criticism of western nations supposedly encouraging this because Ukraine wants to join NATO. When you are a small nation with a massive neighbor who wants you as their own, it’s pretty logical that you would attempt to become a part of an organization with a mutual defense pact in order to have some form of protection from that massive neighbor. No massive deep state plot needed.


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[Tex62]

The Russo-Ukrainian war started in 2014. In 2016 Russia took Crimea.

I don’t know how this is a matter of Graham and McCain ginning up war. It’s been an ongoing conflict for almost a decade.



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This is a reference to recently found video, of Graham and McCain in Ukraine indicating that they were supported for going on offense against Russia in 2017.

This video was on Tucker last night and discussed there as well.

I don’t pretend to have all the knowledge but there is definitely 2 sides and we in the US for the most part are seeing only one side.


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[oldag]

Continue watching CNN and Good Morning America for your news…


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Never watch either one. Nor MSNBC. Don't watch tv news at all.

Try again.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Yes and the other side is being ran by an ex KGB spy who has had an iron fist and stopped basic freedoms for how long? 20-22 years? Who helped our enemies and is our enemy. Not wanting us to go fine, but these apologies for a clearly evil human that gives no ****’s about anyone but himself is insane. You can’t scream freedom than apologize for Putin.


*edited for clarity*

 

[toddnjoyce]

This is a reference to recently found video, of Graham and McCain in Ukraine indicating that they were supported for going on offense against Russia in 2017….

You do realize that no Senator, nor the full Senate or even the entire legislative branch has the constitutional authority to commit the executive branch to military operations, correct?

In a larger context, what makes you think Tucker (or any other talking head/reporter) has full editorial control over the commentary read off a script about a video clip that has all other context removed?

The question I would be asking is what is the motive for show who’s sole purpose is to provide commentary to a target audience in order to generate revenue for a media network to shape a story that will result in affirming the viewership’s bias toward a particular subject?

 

[leVieux]

This was excerpted from a published report in a private discussion b/t some highly educated and well-informed friends:

"Most of my readers didn’t trust corporate media’s portrayal of Russiagate or the alleged pee tape that was manufactured for effect by Hillary Clinton’s operatives. You laughed when they tried to tell us the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation. You were skeptical of the narratives surrounding the after-dark counting of ballots following the 2020 election, as well as the dismissal of mountains of evidence of massive, widespread voter fraud. You didn’t buy the January 6 “insurrection” narrative. You haven’t fallen for Pandemic Panic Theater.

Why, then, are so many people buying into the notion that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is some sort of good guy in the Russia-Ukraine fiasco? The answer is found in human nature; we tend to look at things as “A vs B.” If Vladimir Putin is the bad guy, then his opposition must be the good guy. Governments and corporate media networks across the globe are playing on this false notion and compelling even lucid patriots into thinking that Zelenksy is fighting the good fight.

I’m not taking a side in the regional conflict. It’s not because I’m indecisive; my long-time readers know I take a strong stance on just about every important issue. In this situation, neither side is worth supporting. Zelensky is not a good guy, and while it’s extremely unfortunate that Ukrainian civilians as well as reluctant members of both militaries are being victimized by their two leaders, I don’t see Zelenksy’s actions serving the interests of his people. Most importantly, I don’t see an upside for America to get involved.

I’ve received hundreds of emails regarding the conflict. Some try to convince me that Putin is a crusader for good. I’m not ready to buy that. Others tell me that it’s our responsibility to help Ukraine even if I don’t trust their leader. I can appreciate that perspective, but I see no way to help while the conflict is happening. Any intervention on our part will result in more loss of life, not less.

If NATO were to get involved militarily in any function, the loss of life would increase exponentially. We cannot save Ukraine through military action without going all-in and declaring war on Russia. Any “minor” assistance such as no-fly zones or drone strikes will result in a shooting war with Russia at best, possibly a far worse cyberwar, or the worst outcome of all — nuclear.

Volodymyr Zelensky has been documented as a puppet of George Soros. He has worked closely over the years with Klaus Schwab, a graduate of his school of thought with the likes of Emmanuel Macron and Justin Trudeau. Those two blaring klaxons alone should make you question the mainstream narrative that this charismatic and defiant leader is operating from an agenda that benefits his people or the world. He is a pawn who has been set up as a messiah. There’s only one Messiah, and Zelenksy isn’t Him.

The article below from Free West Media tells a very different story about Zelensky and his actions than what we’re being told by corporate media. There’s a reason Russian media has been blocked universally in the western world. I’ve never trusted Russian media, but I’ve never trusted western media, either. Today, we’re getting one side of the story. Hearing the other side may make you question everything.

Vladimir Zelensky is gambling with the lives of Ukrainians to save face: “I don’t see anything heroic about the man. And I think the most heroic thing he can do right now is to come to terms with reality,” Col. Douglas MacGregor told Fox Business News.
MacGregor said Zelensky was a “puppet” who was putting his people at “unnecessary risk” by dragging out the conflict with Russia. MacGregor also said he saw nothing “heroic” about the Ukrainian leader.

According to retired Army Colonel Douglas MacGregor, Zelensky has been pursuing the same strategy as ISIS in Syria by using civilians as human shields. “They are now mingling with the population, much as we’ve seen in the Middle East […] they ran into cities, used people as shields – the civilian population – and trying to avoid being annihilated.”

MacGregor also underscored that Putin was not trying to “flatten” Ukraine into rubble. “Absolutely not. In fact, he’s [Putin] worked hard to capture most of it intact, surprisingly little damage frankly… Much less damage than we inflicted on Iraq when we went in in ’91 and again in 2003.”

“And quite frankly, most of what comes out of Ukraine is debunked as lies within 24 to 48 hours,” according to MacGregor. “The notions of taking and retaking airfields, all of this is nonsense. It hasn’t happened.”

Zelensky has been trying to avoid “inevitable” defeat, hoping that America would come to his “rescue”. “We are not coming. President Biden has made that very clear,” the Fox guest said, adding that Zelensky was merely a “puppet”. The Ukrainian leader has been spotted in the company of several other WEF puppets.

Washington has been supplying Kiev with plutonium
On Friday, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced that NATO membership of Ukraine was no longer “on the table”.
Russian media outlets, now banned in the US and the EU, reported that Kiev had received plutonium from Washington, the quality of which made it possible to work on the creation of a nuclear explosive device. RIA Novosti cited a representative of one of the competent departments of the Russian Federation:
“In order to accelerate this R&D, plutonium of the required quality was obtained from abroad at the initial stage. According to available information, the United States has already transferred this material to its partners.” The source added that a key role in the creation of a nuclear explosive device was assigned to the Kharkov Institute of Physics and Technology.

Call to assassinate Putin by senior GOP member
US Senator Lindsey Graham has meanwhile launched an hysterical appeal for someone in Russia to “take [Putin] out”. After his call to assassinate Vladimir Putin, the Russian Foreign Ministry summoned US Ambassador John Sullivan to present him with a note of protest.

The ministry stressed that unless Moscow sees a US government response to Graham’s statements, the already difficult bilateral relation will suffer even more.

Ukrainian journalist Daria Kaleniuk recently urged British Prime Minister Boris Johnson in an emotional appeal to dispatch NATO to Ukraine. But Kaleniuk, who poses as a “journalist”, is in fact also a member of the WEF and runs initiatives funded by Soros throughout Eastern Europe."