Ukraine invasion

[avvidclif]

"Have not seen any pilots in my AO sir."

But my hogs are getting fat.

 

[leVieux]

I wasn’t angry at all. Snarky perhaps, I prefer the term “smart ass”. I’m also participating in the general discussion. Or so I thought.




Why do you thing that? Have you been threatened with some sort of penalty. If so, I will be happy to discuss that with whoever made such a statement. Or do you believe it’s sinful to counter your narrative leading to claims of others being angry or that not agreeing with others is some sort of sin?


I’m still not angry, just for clarification. And the comments you kept going back to about buying the MSM narrative are still a red herring, since there are very few (if any) posts citing MSM sources.

My point in the post which seemed to give you the impression that I was angry (for some reason) is that citing unknown and unnamed “experts” gives no more credibility than when the MSM claimed to have unnamed experts, anonymous sources, or “people familiar with the thinking of” as sources for their stories. With that standard I or anyone else could equally refute any of your points by simply stating that they “know an expert in the field” who says otherwise.


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I just find it peculiar that whenever I add a comment, you respond negatively to it. I was posting to the discussions, not directed at you, or anyone else. Why don't you just put me on "ignore this member" status ?

 

[Wiliamr]

Not yet. First, he has to take enough of Ukraine to feel comfortable before he runs over Moldova, absorbs Transnistria, and then carves off a few miles of Romania.

Since Romania is in NATO, that will be the big test. He'll only take a few miles and stop. If NATO doesn't go ape on him, he'll just settle in and consolidate for a while.

Then he'll attack Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Since those are the red-headed step-children of NATO and we set a cowardly precedent in Romania, we won't do anything. Then he'll take the western portion of Poland and because he didn't take it all, we'll sit back and do nothing but humanitarian aid.

It's kinda like gun control. Our forefathers didn't start shooting people after the NFA passed. So the GCA was passed and our fathers didn't shoot anyone. And since then, a bunch more federal laws have happened and we still haven't shot anyone.

Once the bad guys know you won't fight back, they'll keep attacking. Not all at once, mind you. They'll wait until enough time has passed for you to forget the pain of the last battle...then they'll take another piece. In that respect, gun controllers and Putin work exactly the same way.

If I were a betting man, I'd guess the Russians will march into Poland in more than 5 years but less than 10.

The only thing that will derail his plans is if we start getting ready for the attack on western Romania and commit to defending that country. If we don't, NATO is telling Putin that he has a free pass.

All the above is my likely-misinformed opinion. Everybody should feel free to blast me about how wrong I'm going to be.

Sadly, I agree. I can not expand on it, but the history of Soviet - Russian political-military philosophy would support your analysis.

 

[candcallen]

I just find it peculiar that whenever I add a comment, you respond negatively to it. I was posting to the discussions, not directed at you, or anyone else. Why don't you just put me on "ignore this member" status ?

First, you understand you quoted him. Correct? That is the definition of "directed" at you.

Second posting to a public discussion kinda invites responses to your comment. Especially if you quote then respond to said quote.

Third if you want to control the discussion to the point where only posts you think are positive or agreeable you will want to start a blog where you're the admin who controls their own little fiefdom.

Forth, again, who are these in the know people? Why is their third hand commentary so profound? It is just as dubious as any other unnamed source. You do understand why one would question that, dont you? It's your whole foundation for using them to begin with.

 

[Younggun]

I just find it peculiar that whenever I add a comment, you respond negatively to it. I was posting to the discussions, not directed at you, or anyone else. Why don't you just put me on "ignore this member" status ?

I don’t ignore anyone. Even people I disagree with most of the time will bring new knowledge or have valid points from time to time.

I’ve responded to others as well. Some in agreement and adding a bit of my own thoughts, others in disagreement. You, for the most part, have chosen not to respond. However, if I think their is fault in your logic I will counter it with my own. Others can read both sides and come to their own conclusions. I don’t thing disagreement is equal to negative. I can disagree with out it being some kind of an attack on you. Your ideas maybe, but not you personally. And attacking an alternate viewpoint is what happens in any discussion where to people disagree, so it still doesn’t constitute negativity per say.


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[Brains]

That's it. If the conversations don't all start stroking my ego, I'm going to start banning people!


Nevermind the fact that I have no mod powers here, but I WILL BAN YOU ANYWAY!


Now back to arguing, please.

 

[Axxe55]

 

[Younggun]

Sorry, no bans for disagreeing about Ukraine.


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[leVieux]

I don’t ignore anyone. Even people I disagree with most of the time will bring new knowledge or have valid points from time to time.

I’ve responded to others as well. Some in agreement and adding a bit of my own thoughts, others in disagreement. You, for the most part, have chosen not to respond. However, if I think their is fault in your logic I will counter it with my own. Others can read both sides and come to their own conclusions. I don’t thing disagreement is equal to negative. I can disagree with out it being some kind of an attack on you. Your ideas maybe, but not you personally. And attacking an alternate viewpoint is what happens in any discussion where to people disagree, so it still doesn’t constitute negativity per say.


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>
I just try to add information and often to question others. I'm an old retired Professor in an unrelated field.

Long ago, as a child, I was raised by my recently-retired Military Intelligence Officer Father. During lulls in duck blinds or offshore fishing, Dad would tell of his experiences while assigned to British Military Counter-Intelligence services in wartime London, and of the astoundingly extensive and deep extent of their methods used to confuse the Enemy, NAZI Germany. To this kid, Dad was just "unloading" from the War, but I later realized that I got quite an education in the process. Later, during the early days of VietNam, I got earfuls as Dad's old comrades, by then Generals in U S Intelligence, would sit around our kitchen table drinking whiskey and telling the "straight scoop" of S E Asia. Next evening I'd watch the blatant LIES of CBS "News" on TV. Often those LIES were patently injurious to U S interests, and to our guys over there in combat.

The only thing I "assert" in this thread is that none of us here could be really certain of exactly what is going-on in the Ukrainian region, because in a war; neither side will give accurate information. Especially as to the motivations of the warring parties.

In this situation, the only outside direct observers reporting are journalists, and we all know how truthful they are.

Again, I found it peculiar that, with several hundred members on-line, you and only you, felt compelled to reply negatively EVERY TIME I posted.

Then I see you have the title of "Administrator".

I have a few unrelated sites and "Mod" for a few others; I haven't seen an Administrator getting into it like this with an individual group member unless group or site rules were being violated.

Normally I'd respond to something like this via private message; but this entire discussion has been open, so I'll let our readers judge.

leVieux
.

 

[candcallen]

>
I just try to add information and often to question others. I'm an old retired Professor in an unrelated field.

Long ago, as a child, I was raised by my recently-retired Military Intelligence Officer Father. During lulls in duck blinds or offshore fishing, Dad would tell of his experiences while assigned to British Military Counter-Intelligence services in wartime London, and of the astoundingly extensive and deep extent of their methods used to confuse the Enemy, NAZI Germany. To this kid, Dad was just "unloading" from the War, but I later realized that I got quite an education in the process. Later, during the early days of VietNam, I got earfuls as Dad's old comrades, by then Generals in U S Intelligence, would sit around our kitchen table drinking whiskey and telling the "straight scoop" of S E Asia. Next evening I'd watch the blatant LIES of CBS "News" on TV. Often those LIES were patently injurious to U S interests, and to our guys over there in combat.

The only thing I "assert" in this thread is that none of us here could be really certain of exactly what is going-on in the Ukrainian region, because in a war; neither side will give accurate information. Especially as to the motivations of the warring parties.

In this situation, the only outside direct observers reporting are journalists, and we all know how truthful they are.

Again, I found it peculiar that, with several hundred members on-line, you and only you, felt compelled to reply negatively EVERY TIME I posted.

Then I see you have the title of "Administrator".

I have a few unrelated sites and "Mod" for a few others; I haven't seen an Administrator getting into it like this with an individual group member unless group or site rules were being violated.

Normally I'd respond to something like this via private message; but this entire discussion has been open, so I'll let our readers judge.

leVieux
.

As a "reader" I gotta say there must be posts somewhere only you can see cause there is no basis in reality I can see for your take on the back and forth in this thread.

Sorry.

 

[leVieux]

First, you understand you quoted him. Correct? That is the definition of "directed" at you.

Second posting to a public discussion kinda invites responses to your comment. Especially if you quote then respond to said quote.

Third if you want to control the discussion to the point where only posts you think are positive or agreeable you will want to start a blog where you're the admin who controls their own little fiefdom.

Forth, again, who are these in the know people? Why is their third hand commentary so profound? It is just as dubious as any other unnamed source. You do understand why one would question that, dont you? It's your whole foundation for using them to begin with.

"First, you understand you quoted him. Correct?"

I quoted you, in a direct response to something you directed at me.

leVieux

 

[candcallen]

Sigh!

 

[Younggun]

>
I just try to add information and often to question others. I'm an old retired Professor in an unrelated field.

Long ago, as a child, I was raised by my recently-retired Military Intelligence Officer Father. During lulls in duck blinds or offshore fishing, Dad would tell of his experiences while assigned to British Military Counter-Intelligence services in wartime London, and of the astoundingly extensive and deep extent of their methods used to confuse the Enemy, NAZI Germany. To this kid, Dad was just "unloading" from the War, but I later realized that I got quite an education in the process. Later, during the early days of VietNam, I got earfuls as Dad's old comrades, by then Generals in U S Intelligence, would sit around our kitchen table drinking whiskey and telling the "straight scoop" of S E Asia. Next evening I'd watch the blatant LIES of CBS "News" on TV. Often those LIES were patently injurious to U S interests, and to our guys over there in combat.

The only thing I "assert" in this thread is that none of us here could be really certain of exactly what is going-on in the Ukrainian region, because in a war; neither side will give accurate information. Especially as to the motivations of the warring parties.

In this situation, the only outside direct observers reporting are journalists, and we all know how truthful they are.

Again, I found it peculiar that, with several hundred members on-line, you and only you, felt compelled to reply negatively EVERY TIME I posted.

Then I see you have the title of "Administrator".

I have a few unrelated sites and "Mod" for a few others; I haven't seen an Administrator getting into it like this with an individual group member unless group or site rules were being violated.

Normally I'd respond to something like this via private message; but this entire discussion has been open, so I'll let our readers judge.

leVieux
.

The mods and admin come from active membership on the forum. We all do it because we have gotten a lot from the forum and it’s a way to give back. It also means that we tend to continue to be active participants. Personally, I think this is a better system than having unknown people with little interaction creating and enticing rules for a group they don’t engage with.

My opinions and discussions are totally separate from anything I do in an Admin role and anything related to that roll I try to make clear. Nothing in our conversation is related to that role and I sincerely hope you don’t feel that it has had any bearing.

We simply disagree on some things and I chose to give an alternate view. Quoting you when doing so makes it clear to others what I’m responding to. There are some that you’ve chosen not to reply to and that’s also fine. We were both able to express our viewpoints and others can choose who they believe builds a better case.

I don’t disagree that groups on either Sadie of any conflict will attempt to garner support through propaganda. We just have different views on how it should be filtered and which sources hold the most merit. And possibly the more important reasons for being involved out avoiding involvement. But overall I felt the discussion was pretty tame.


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[oldag]

I just find it peculiar that whenever I add a comment, you respond negatively to it. I was posting to the discussions, not directed at you, or anyone else. Why don't you just put me on "ignore this member" status ?

So it is okay for you to post something counter to someone else, but not for him?

 

[oldag]

Breaking news:

Ukraine has violently reverse invaded Russia, as evidenced by the Russian attacks in Ukrainian territory. Ukraine has been stealing artillery shells, mortar shells, rockets and bombs from Russian equipment. They are using a new top secret device that draws the munitions out of the Russian weapons and then demolishes the ammo on Ukrainian targets.

However, there are reports on tinfoil.com that the Ukrainian Dept. of Urban Renewal actually provoked Russia and invited the destruction of their towns so that they could implement common use and equitable housing developments. This would indicate that Russia is the wronged party and Ukraine is evil.

 

[toddnjoyce]

You can’t make this shit up:

LVIV, Ukraine, March 9 (Reuters) - Ukraine appealed to Russia for a temporary ceasefire on Wednesday to allow repairs to be made to a power line to the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, warning that there could be a radiation leak if the electricity outage continued.

Ukraine sees risk of radiation leak at Chernobyl, IAEA sees 'no critical impact' on safety

Ukraine said on Wednesday there was a danger of a radiation leak at the Chernobyl nuclear power station after electricity was cut off to the plant, but the U.N. nuclear watchdog saw "no critical impact on security".

www.reuters.com

Looks like the Russians can’t get that Chernobyl monkey of their back. Fûcking morons.

 

[Renegade]

So it is okay for you to post something counter to someone else, but not for him?

He has "highly educated and well-informed friends".

 

[Sasquatch]

You can’t make this shit up:

LVIV, Ukraine, March 9 (Reuters) - Ukraine appealed to Russia for a temporary ceasefire on Wednesday to allow repairs to be made to a power line to the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, warning that there could be a radiation leak if the electricity outage continued.

Ukraine sees risk of radiation leak at Chernobyl, IAEA sees 'no critical impact' on safety

Ukraine said on Wednesday there was a danger of a radiation leak at the Chernobyl nuclear power station after electricity was cut off to the plant, but the U.N. nuclear watchdog saw "no critical impact on security".

www.reuters.com

Looks like the Russians can’t get that Chernobyl monkey of their back. Fûcking morons.

Fuckin' eh - this, on top of them shelling another nuke plant last week - its kinda like maybe they want to irradiate the place and forgot the damn wind generally blows in their direction?

 

[Sam7sf]

Found this interesting, especially at 1:20

 

[leVieux]

The mods and admin come from active membership on the forum. We all do it because we have gotten a lot from the forum and it’s a way to give back. It also means that we tend to continue to be active participants. Personally, I think this is a better system than having unknown people with little interaction creating and enticing rules for a group they don’t engage with.

My opinions and discussions are totally separate from anything I do in an Admin role and anything related to that roll I try to make clear. Nothing in our conversation is related to that role and I sincerely hope you don’t feel that it has had any bearing.

We simply disagree on some things and I chose to give an alternate view. Quoting you when doing so makes it clear to others what I’m responding to. There are some that you’ve chosen not to reply to and that’s also fine. We were both able to express our viewpoints and others can choose who they believe builds a better case.

I don’t disagree that groups on either Sadie of any conflict will attempt to garner support through propaganda. We just have different views on how it should be filtered and which sources hold the most merit. And possibly the more important reasons for being involved out avoiding involvement. But overall I felt the discussion was pretty tame.


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All right, that’s good for me. leVieux