Ukraine invasion

[leVieux]

If you feel I’m being hypocritical feel free to give an example.


I believe I’ve gone out of my way to be agreeable in out disagreements.

Not worth the effort. . . . . .

 

[candcallen]

Not worth the effort. . . . . .

Sigh

 

[popper]

Uh, go back farther, Ru wasn't around much either, but Poland was HUGE.
Pentagon... hasn’t purchased the (stinger) missiles in 18 years. So we sent 25 yr old weapons to Ukraine?
Several European armed forces have or are currently replacing older M109s (155 selfpropelled) with the German PzH 2000. W still use it but Eu sent the old stuff to Ukraine?
Brits sent Harpoon (supposedly) but it is an airdrop (version) missile and does the Ukraine have aircraft anymore? Plus launch system on Migs?
Like I said, garage sale stuff.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Ukr. a test bed for weapons and some are brand stinking new.

Our defense contractors here and abroad need a place to test them and now they have one.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Speak out about mini pootler and his genocide supporting goons.

Sent from your grandma's house using TGT services

You should go be used as cannon fodder for putin. Add to the 10,000's of prorussian young men wasted over putins desire to steal Ukraine

Wow dude... Thats really brave of you to speak out against Putin on the internet.

Buy a ticket and go fight for your prefered side if you feel so strongly, otherwise cool your jets and don't lump everyone not 100% on board with you as the enemy.

The assertion I am "pro-Russian" is laughable. I am neither pro-Putin or pro-Zelensky, but I am anti-invasion and pro-freedom.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[cycleguy2300]

Just about every one that has a navigable international body of water.

The question is, which nation is stupid enough to sail nearly obsolete flagship within range of shore based anti ship missiles and stores all their munitions on deck.

And then think a random fire is a good excuse for a major warship sinking...

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[popper]

major warship sinking
Interesting as the shots were supposedly (?) from snake island where the few Uk mil guys 'surrendered? That island is a small hunk of rock many miles (120 km from Odesa and 35km from nearest land) and was supposedly (again) under Ru control? So the Uk guys snuck out with a launcher (or 2), set them up and waited for the 'Moscow' to cruise by? The only Uk navy ship was scuttled early on to prevent loss to Ru. Only other scenario would be to use a small cargo ship. Bile (snake island) is a 250km tow from any Ru port. As for ships, no that old. But yes, looks like a poor design by Poland, but maybe Ru added the deck launchers.

 

[ian]

How could we know what is true and what isn't true ?

What about the video evidence I posted do you think is untrue?

 

[ian]

major warship sinking
Interesting as the shots were supposedly (?) from snake island where the few Uk mil guys 'surrendered? That island is a small hunk of rock many miles (120 km from Odesa and 35km from nearest land) and was supposedly (again) under Ru control? So the Uk guys snuck out with a launcher (or 2), set them up and waited for the 'Moscow' to cruise by? The only Uk navy ship was scuttled early on to prevent loss to Ru. Only other scenario would be to use a small cargo ship. Bile (snake island) is a 250km tow from any Ru port. As for ships, no that old. But yes, looks like a poor design by Poland, but maybe Ru added the deck launchers.

Where did you hear the missiles that sunk Moscow were fired from snake island?

 

[ian]

Not ignoring it, just that if you want people to be distracted, get involved in a war. I'm just not gung ho over defending a country that is divided in the first place. Getting into an actual war with Russia and China on one side, and the U.S. and Europe on the other is a no win situation for people anywhere.

Agree war is bad.

Where do you think putins invasion will stop? Did you think putin would stop with Crimea? Where is your red line?

 

[popper]

Ukraine report. My actual guess, was from main land. Who knows? The proper navy tactic would be to cruise the Moscow well out of range and approach only to fire missiles. Much easier to set up shore launchers on the mainland and wait for an attack, give 'unexpected' reply. We don't get factual stuff from either side. But it would have been a (logistically difficult) neat trick.

 

[ian]

I spoke about this at the beginning of the conflict, please refer to my first post in this thread (or second) Ukraine is not an independent entity from The Rus. It WAS the Rus until the Mongolians got involved.

Europe 900 AD -- Can you point Kiev on this map? I can because I had Russian History which was brutal btw.

View attachment 316307


Once the Mongolians got kicked out in the late 1000s Russia re-established itself with Muscovy instead of Kiev as the capital.

View attachment 316308


By the 1500s several wars and territorial changes had pushed Russia to a small kingdom in Eastern Europe. Ukraine as a nation did not exist at that point or at any point and was part oft he Polish - Lithuanian empire at one point.

View attachment 316309

Ukraine did not end up being a republic until the establishment of the USSR in 1918. It was not officially a nation until 1991.

I find the Gravettian peoples particularly interesting. During 1988 history class I learned that people living in Ukraine domesticated horses 6000 years ago. But it's 2022. No reason for putin to invade Ukraine and carpet bomb entire cities to dust like it's the freakin' middle ages.

 

[ian]

Russian Defense officials have warned that if the west continues its proxy war in Ukraine against Russia it could lead to a nuclear conflict

Ukraine accuses Russia of blackmail with plan to halt gas to Poland

Kyiv accused Russia of blackmailing Europe by cutting off gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria as the crisis in Ukraine deepened, with tensions surging in nearby Moldova and Moscow warning the West to back off.

www.reuters.com

Putin underlings are so desperate they are already pulling the nuke card. Russia needs to take its nuclear football and go home. 3rd most powerful army has been exposed as 3rd rate.

 

[ian]

Ukraine report. My actual guess, was from main land. Who knows? The proper navy tactic would be to cruise the Moscow well out of range and approach only to fire missiles. Much easier to set up shore launchers on the mainland and wait for an attack, give 'unexpected' reply. We don't get factual stuff from either side. But it would have been a (logistically difficult) neat trick.

We do know the moscow was destroyed. Havent seen any Ukrainian reports of missiles being launched from snake island. Got a link?

 

[ian]

You are treading dangerously close to the line of just wanting to attack and insult people.

Not attacking anyone. Please shoot me a PM and let me know how what I said was any worse than what I quoted and responded to. Thank you.

 

[Darkpriest667]

I find the Gravettian peoples particularly interesting. During 1988 history class I learned that people living in Ukraine domesticated horses 6000 years ago. But it's 2022. No reason for putin to invade Ukraine and carpet bomb entire cities to dust like it's the freakin' middle ages.

I really wish you'd use multiquote instead of posting 20 times in a thread in a row.

My entire point, which is in the beginning of this absurdly long thread, is that Ukraine is Russia, it has been since recorded history. It's never been an independent sovereign entity until 1991.

I am not on any side here, I'm just pointing out the general background of the logic why Russia would think it's still part of Russia.

 

[popper]

False - Ukraine was pre-Poland! Get your history right.
Interesting. Ukraine national debt is ~100 M$. We give then 800M$ but won't forgive their debt? Numbers don't add up. And JFB proposes another 33B$.

 

[Darkpriest667]

False - Ukraine was pre-Poland! Get your history right.
Interesting. Ukraine national debt is ~100 M$. We give then 800M$ but won't forgive their debt? Numbers don't add up. And JFB proposes another 33B$.

Pre 900 AD? I don't believe there is any historical record of a Ukraine at that time. Poland was it's own country in 900 AD. Some Duke claimed Poland as a kingdom during that period. At that time Kiev was part of the Rus and the CAPITOL of the Rus AGAIN (not to sound like a broken record) before the Mongols got involved.

 

[ian]

I really wish you'd use multiquote instead of posting 20 times in a thread in a row.

My entire point, which is in the beginning of this absurdly long thread, is that Ukraine is Russia, it has been since recorded history. It's never been an independent sovereign entity until 1991.

I am not on any side here, I'm just pointing out the general background of the logic why Russia would think it's still part of Russia.

I understand you are trying to prove Ukrainian land belongs to Russian government. Using recently printed/ supposedly accurate maps of the middle ages to prove your point is flawed logic.

If Ukraine was Russia, Russia wouldn't need tanks, artillery, jets, hypersonic missiles, grad rockets, sunken destroyers and troops from several nations to take it. It should be blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention that Ukrainians don't want to live under Russian government. Ukrainians want to keep their homes and independence.

 

[m5215]

Russian State TV Comforts Viewers on Nuclear War: 'We All Die Someday'

"But we will go to heaven, while they will simply croak."

www.newsweek.com