There's a difference between being on a state's database and being on file at your local FFL.
Not disagreeing with this, but it made me think (which is dangerous).
Is there no record of your name/gun purchase request kept, when the data base is queried during the NICS call?
ETA: I'm still reading the thread, this might have already been mentioned.
Yeah but... How many times have you hit the internet searching for some obscure bit of information - and found it? I bet at one time you never figured someone would have a picture of the road you live on and your house either. Or a satellite image of your property. Never underestimate the tenacity of those bent on controlling you and yours!When the FFL dealer calls into NICS to do the background check, all they are checking is the criminal records of the buyer. The actual gun and information is never used for that. So they have no record of what gun, type, brand or SN of the gun the buyer purchased. All they know is that person bought a gun. The FFL dealer has the original 4473 Form with all that information on it, that is kept in his files.
If I'm not mistaken, the FFL dealer is only required by BATF requirements to keep those records for twenty years, or if the dealer goes out of business prior to that, they are shipped to the BATF, who then stores them in a warehouse.
This is why I keep pointing out it would be a logistical nightmare to compile all that information into a database for a registry.
You're right - it would be an administrative mountain to get all those 4473's recorded. If I were more jaded I'd suggest that this task is right up the big gov Dem's alley. Maybe even an Office of Firearm Management and Safety? With about 250,000 brand new federal government employees. Or the Dems could just make us all felons overnight and pick a few souls who would be made an example so we could all see, shiver, and get in line. That, Amigo, is a line I will not cross.When the FFL dealer calls into NICS to do the background check, all they are checking is the criminal records of the buyer. The actual gun and information is never used for that. So they have no record of what gun, type, brand or SN of the gun the buyer purchased. All they know is that person bought a gun. The FFL dealer has the original 4473 Form with all that information on it, that is kept in his files.
If I'm not mistaken, the FFL dealer is only required by BATF requirements to keep those records for twenty years, or if the dealer goes out of business prior to that, they are shipped to the BATF, who then stores them in a warehouse.
This is why I keep pointing out it would be a logistical nightmare to compile all that information into a database for a registry.
Yeah but... How many times have you hit the internet searching for some obscure bit of information - and found it? I bet at one time you never figured someone would have a picture of the road you live on and your house either. Or a satellite image of your property. Never underestimate the tenacity of those bent on controlling you and yours!
I will tell you this.... I've got dui's that pre-date computerized data input - and they are on my computerized records! I'm talking back in the very early 80's, 40 years ago,(so yeah there was the early Macintosh and even Texas Instrument PC clones and some DOS 1.0 microsoft stuff out there but it wasn't in full force at that point)I am not saying it can't be done, just that it can't be done as easily as some people think it could be done.
What about guns that were bought over thirty years ago? Or even less than twenty years ago? I know many I bought over twenty years ago, I don't even own today. What about a gun that was bought through several FFL dealers? And what about all the home based FFL dealers? Or pawn shops that have an FFL? If you pawn a gun for a loan at a pawn shop, you have to fill out a Form 4473 to get your own gun returned to you, and they have to do the background check through NICS just like any other FFL dealer.
Yeah but... How many times have you hit the internet searching for some obscure bit of information - and found it? I bet at one time you never figured someone would have a picture of the road you live on and your house either. Or a satellite image of your property. Never underestimate the tenacity of those bent on controlling you and yours!
I will tell you this.... I've got dui's that pre-date computerized data input - and they are on my computerized records! I'm talking back in the very early 80's, 40 years ago,(so yeah there was the early Macintosh and even Texas Instrument PC clones and some DOS 1.0 microsoft stuff out there but it wasn't in full force at that point)
If I knew your address I could use google street view and take a look at your house, how it's laid out, how far from the road, what the front door/porch looks like. If the dogs were at time the Google vehicle went by I'd see them too. Would know something about out-buildings. How far the nearest neighbor is.... who know what all I could learn!Satellite imagery goes back at least sixty years. I doubt there is much that hasn't been covered in satellite imagery photographs and is already stored somewhere, in some database. IIRC, the CIA, NSA, Air Force and several other agencies already have that information, and some if I'm not mistaken can be accessed by the FOIA if you know how to request it.
If I knew your address I could use google street view and take a look at your house, how it's laid out, how far from the road, what the front door/porch looks like. If the dogs were at time the Google vehicle went by I'd see them too. Would know something about out-buildings. How far the nearest neighbor is.... who know what all I could learn!
ATF has been going to FFL's across the US for the last 10 - 15 years and recording the 4473's. Not every FFL but a great many of them.You're right - it would be an administrative mountain to get all those 4473's recorded. If I were more jaded I'd suggest that this task is right up the big gov Dem's alley. Maybe even an Office of Firearm Management and Safety? With about 250,000 brand new federal government employees. Or the Dems could just make us all felons overnight and pick a few souls who would be made an example so we could all see, shiver, and get in line. That, Amigo, is a line I will not cross.
ATF has been going to FFL's across the US for the last 10 - 15 years and recording the 4473's. Not every FFL but a great many of them.
If it comes down to it, the Feds won't be as concerned about individual guns. They will want to know who does/has owned a gun.And even if they were, that information is only good if the person who filled out that 4473 Form, still retains ownership of that firearm.
If it was sold or traded in a private transaction, that Form 4473 is essentially useless information.
Searched but didn't find a specific thread regarding the confiscation or "buy back" of modern sporting rifles and who would be willing to allow this. I was pleasantly surprised
to learn that there are over 19-1/2 million of these rifles in circulation in the US since 1990. Sure, the gov't won't know about your guns unless you register them, but if you don't, it really paints one into a corner. There are very few options at that point. What are y'all's opinion as to who would be doing the forced confiscation for those unwilling to allow registration and compensated confiscation? Are we seriously looking at jackboots kicking in doors? I can't imagine Americans would do that to Americans. After all, these folks are our fathers, husbands, brothers and friends. I've been around the block as many times as most of you folks...and I just don't freaking know what's next.
If it comes down to it, the Feds won't be as concerned about individual guns. They will want to know who does/has owned a gun.
They will assume (and rightly so in nearly every instance) that someone who once owned any gun is likely to own them now. At that point, they know where (i.e., for whom) to look.
And yes, that is a LOT of places to look (e.g., a lot of gun owners). But they will work on the principle that coming down hard on thousands will have an effect on the millions. And some will turn in their guns in fear at that point. But it may have (I hope) have the opposite effect on many.
You are correct. Or for those unlucky ones like me, that were on a deer hunt and the deer stole my rifle and on the way home my canoe rolled and the other guns fell in Lake Buchanan well, at least that was last year in December before the promise of a new year in 2020.And even if they were, that information is only good if the person who filled out that 4473 Form, still retains ownership of that firearm.
If it was sold or traded in a private transaction, that Form 4473 is essentially useless information.
You are correct. Or for those unlucky ones like me, that were on a deer hunt and the deer stole my rifle and on the way home my canoe rolled and the other guns fell in Lake Buchanan well, at least that was last year in December before the promise of a new year in 2020.