DK Firearms

Come and Take It

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I have always been somewhat of a nonconformist all my life. Not always a leader, but never a follower. Just sort of set out on my own path in life and did things my way. And being dictated to just always has rubbed me the wrong way.

    So when someone who thinks about wanting a leadership role in this country, decides to dictate my choices in life should be, and wants to decide what I can, or can't have, what I can or can't do, just sort of sets me in the mood of non-compliance.

    This country has been to me. I love living the American Dream, and being able to go after my dreams. And anyone that thinks that destroying that dream is good idea, has yet to come across a true American yet!
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
    TGT Supporter
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    May 14, 2008
    59,734
    96
    The Woodlands, Tx.
    There's a difference between being on a state's database and being on file at your local FFL.

    Not disagreeing with this, but it made me think (which is dangerous).
    Is there no record of your name/gun purchase request kept, when the data base is queried during the NICS call?

    ETA: I'm still reading the thread, this might have already been mentioned.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    Not disagreeing with this, but it made me think (which is dangerous).
    Is there no record of your name/gun purchase request kept, when the data base is queried during the NICS call?

    ETA: I'm still reading the thread, this might have already been mentioned.

    When the FFL dealer calls into NICS to do the background check, all they are checking is the criminal records of the buyer. The actual gun and information is never used for that. So they have no record of what gun, type, brand or SN of the gun the buyer purchased. All they know is that person bought a gun. The FFL dealer has the original 4473 Form with all that information on it, that is kept in his files.

    If I'm not mistaken, the FFL dealer is only required by BATF requirements to keep those records for twenty years, or if the dealer goes out of business prior to that, they are shipped to the BATF, who then stores them in a warehouse.

    This is why I keep pointing out it would be a logistical nightmare to compile all that information into a database for a registry.
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    When the FFL dealer calls into NICS to do the background check, all they are checking is the criminal records of the buyer. The actual gun and information is never used for that. So they have no record of what gun, type, brand or SN of the gun the buyer purchased. All they know is that person bought a gun. The FFL dealer has the original 4473 Form with all that information on it, that is kept in his files.

    If I'm not mistaken, the FFL dealer is only required by BATF requirements to keep those records for twenty years, or if the dealer goes out of business prior to that, they are shipped to the BATF, who then stores them in a warehouse.

    This is why I keep pointing out it would be a logistical nightmare to compile all that information into a database for a registry.
    Yeah but... How many times have you hit the internet searching for some obscure bit of information - and found it? I bet at one time you never figured someone would have a picture of the road you live on and your house either. Or a satellite image of your property. Never underestimate the tenacity of those bent on controlling you and yours!
     

    billtool

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 16, 2008
    4,094
    96
    The Wooldlands
    When the FFL dealer calls into NICS to do the background check, all they are checking is the criminal records of the buyer. The actual gun and information is never used for that. So they have no record of what gun, type, brand or SN of the gun the buyer purchased. All they know is that person bought a gun. The FFL dealer has the original 4473 Form with all that information on it, that is kept in his files.

    If I'm not mistaken, the FFL dealer is only required by BATF requirements to keep those records for twenty years, or if the dealer goes out of business prior to that, they are shipped to the BATF, who then stores them in a warehouse.

    This is why I keep pointing out it would be a logistical nightmare to compile all that information into a database for a registry.
    You're right - it would be an administrative mountain to get all those 4473's recorded. If I were more jaded I'd suggest that this task is right up the big gov Dem's alley. Maybe even an Office of Firearm Management and Safety? With about 250,000 brand new federal government employees. Or the Dems could just make us all felons overnight and pick a few souls who would be made an example so we could all see, shiver, and get in line. That, Amigo, is a line I will not cross.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    Yeah but... How many times have you hit the internet searching for some obscure bit of information - and found it? I bet at one time you never figured someone would have a picture of the road you live on and your house either. Or a satellite image of your property. Never underestimate the tenacity of those bent on controlling you and yours!

    I am not saying it can't be done, just that it can't be done as easily as some people think it could be done.

    What about guns that were bought over thirty years ago? Or even less than twenty years ago? I know many I bought over twenty years ago, I don't even own today. What about a gun that was bought through several FFL dealers? And what about all the home based FFL dealers? Or pawn shops that have an FFL? If you pawn a gun for a loan at a pawn shop, you have to fill out a Form 4473 to get your own gun returned to you, and they have to do the background check through NICS just like any other FFL dealer.
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    I am not saying it can't be done, just that it can't be done as easily as some people think it could be done.

    What about guns that were bought over thirty years ago? Or even less than twenty years ago? I know many I bought over twenty years ago, I don't even own today. What about a gun that was bought through several FFL dealers? And what about all the home based FFL dealers? Or pawn shops that have an FFL? If you pawn a gun for a loan at a pawn shop, you have to fill out a Form 4473 to get your own gun returned to you, and they have to do the background check through NICS just like any other FFL dealer.
    I will tell you this.... I've got dui's that pre-date computerized data input - and they are on my computerized records! I'm talking back in the very early 80's, 40 years ago,(so yeah there was the early Macintosh and even Texas Instrument PC clones and some DOS 1.0 microsoft stuff out there but it wasn't in full force at that point)
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    Yeah but... How many times have you hit the internet searching for some obscure bit of information - and found it? I bet at one time you never figured someone would have a picture of the road you live on and your house either. Or a satellite image of your property. Never underestimate the tenacity of those bent on controlling you and yours!

    Satellite imagery goes back at least sixty years. I doubt there is much that hasn't been covered in satellite imagery photographs and is already stored somewhere, in some database. IIRC, the CIA, NSA, Air Force and several other agencies already have that information, and some if I'm not mistaken can be accessed by the FOIA if you know how to request it.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I will tell you this.... I've got dui's that pre-date computerized data input - and they are on my computerized records! I'm talking back in the very early 80's, 40 years ago,(so yeah there was the early Macintosh and even Texas Instrument PC clones and some DOS 1.0 microsoft stuff out there but it wasn't in full force at that point)

    That information was never in a "computerized" database. That information was transferred, or inputted, at a later date, to a computerized database.

    Any database is dependent upon WHAT information is inputted into it's files. IOW's, no one can access information that was never uploaded, or inputted into the database.
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    Satellite imagery goes back at least sixty years. I doubt there is much that hasn't been covered in satellite imagery photographs and is already stored somewhere, in some database. IIRC, the CIA, NSA, Air Force and several other agencies already have that information, and some if I'm not mistaken can be accessed by the FOIA if you know how to request it.
    If I knew your address I could use google street view and take a look at your house, how it's laid out, how far from the road, what the front door/porch looks like. If the dogs were at time the Google vehicle went by I'd see them too. Would know something about out-buildings. How far the nearest neighbor is.... who know what all I could learn!
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    If I knew your address I could use google street view and take a look at your house, how it's laid out, how far from the road, what the front door/porch looks like. If the dogs were at time the Google vehicle went by I'd see them too. Would know something about out-buildings. How far the nearest neighbor is.... who know what all I could learn!

    Google is also using drones to gather that same information as well.

    And again, nothing really new, except for the way they are gathering the information. Same way satellites made spy planes obsolete.

    You could drive by my house and gather the same information with a film camera as well!
     

    Wiliamr

    Well-Known
    TGT Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Apr 15, 2011
    1,807
    96
    Austin
    You're right - it would be an administrative mountain to get all those 4473's recorded. If I were more jaded I'd suggest that this task is right up the big gov Dem's alley. Maybe even an Office of Firearm Management and Safety? With about 250,000 brand new federal government employees. Or the Dems could just make us all felons overnight and pick a few souls who would be made an example so we could all see, shiver, and get in line. That, Amigo, is a line I will not cross.
    ATF has been going to FFL's across the US for the last 10 - 15 years and recording the 4473's. Not every FFL but a great many of them.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    ATF has been going to FFL's across the US for the last 10 - 15 years and recording the 4473's. Not every FFL but a great many of them.

    And even if they were, that information is only good if the person who filled out that 4473 Form, still retains ownership of that firearm.

    If it was sold or traded in a private transaction, that Form 4473 is essentially useless information.
     

    oldag

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 19, 2015
    17,427
    96
    And even if they were, that information is only good if the person who filled out that 4473 Form, still retains ownership of that firearm.

    If it was sold or traded in a private transaction, that Form 4473 is essentially useless information.
    If it comes down to it, the Feds won't be as concerned about individual guns. They will want to know who does/has owned a gun.
    They will assume (and rightly so in nearly every instance) that someone who once owned any gun is likely to own them now. At that point, they know where (i.e., for whom) to look.

    And yes, that is a LOT of places to look (e.g., a lot of gun owners). But they will work on the principle that coming down hard on thousands will have an effect on the millions. And some will turn in their guns in fear at that point. But it may have (I hope) have the opposite effect on many.
     

    Sasquatch

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 20, 2020
    6,590
    96
    Magnolia
    Searched but didn't find a specific thread regarding the confiscation or "buy back" of modern sporting rifles and who would be willing to allow this. I was pleasantly surprised
    to learn that there are over 19-1/2 million of these rifles in circulation in the US since 1990. Sure, the gov't won't know about your guns unless you register them, but if you don't, it really paints one into a corner. There are very few options at that point. What are y'all's opinion as to who would be doing the forced confiscation for those unwilling to allow registration and compensated confiscation? Are we seriously looking at jackboots kicking in doors? I can't imagine Americans would do that to Americans. After all, these folks are our fathers, husbands, brothers and friends. I've been around the block as many times as most of you folks...and I just don't freaking know what's next.

    Yes, Americans would be willing to kick your door and murder your family to take even just one "prohibited" firearm. They've already done it. Excuse the tired trope - but Ruby Ridge and Waco were great demonstrations of the willingness for asshole Americans to inflict the ultimate punishment on those who they deemed unworthy. Randy Weaver's wife & child were murdered.

    American cops murdered LaVoy Finnicum for his part in a peaceful protest against government over-reach - they set up a road block on the back side of a curve, on a snowy mountain road, they shot at his vehicle as it approached after the cops already tried shooting them during a traffic stop in the middle of nowhere. Thankfully both passengers in his truck were unharmed to tell their side of the story, but it was clear from drone footage released those cops had zero intention of letting him live, and they shot him in the back and side then tried claiming he was going for his gun.

    American cops have beaten and arrested people for not wearing a mask.

    American cops have done a lot of evil shit to people who didn't deserve it. Am I saying all, or the majority of cops are bad? Nope. But cops first and foremost are people collecting a paycheck. They will do whats necessary to collect that paycheck. They will find a reason to justify it. Government protects government. Those who wouldn't do evil to their fellow man either have already walked away from that job, or will when the order comes that breaks the camel's back. And then they'll be painting a target on themselves. There are enough shitheads with a badge to carry out such orders that the powers that be aren't worried about that.

    They don't have the man power for real door to door campaigns, and they know that would indeed spark a shooting war with the people. They won't go door to door - they'll make their lists, triage them, and then take out select targets slowly. The 'noncompliant' will be a lot more discrete, they'll lock away their guns, they'll not use up their precious ammo stocks (don't think ammo is going to come back in great availability again any time soon, especially under Biden if he is successful) - those who don't do this will rise to the top of those lists soon enough.

    Don't underestimate the ability of a statist bastard to bring harm to his fellow American. Not every uniformed person is libertarian or conservative, they don't all love the freedoms they took an oath to protect, they don't all think that we should be armed. They'll gladly stick a boot on your neck and laugh, and some will laugh as you bleed out on the floor, or while your wife or children bleed out and take their las breaths. There are some sick, sick bastards out there and some have authority.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    If it comes down to it, the Feds won't be as concerned about individual guns. They will want to know who does/has owned a gun.
    They will assume (and rightly so in nearly every instance) that someone who once owned any gun is likely to own them now. At that point, they know where (i.e., for whom) to look.

    And yes, that is a LOT of places to look (e.g., a lot of gun owners). But they will work on the principle that coming down hard on thousands will have an effect on the millions. And some will turn in their guns in fear at that point. But it may have (I hope) have the opposite effect on many.

    The scenario you propose is very possible.

    But as you speculate, I think it would have the very opposite effect than the one they would want to happen.
     

    Wiliamr

    Well-Known
    TGT Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Apr 15, 2011
    1,807
    96
    Austin
    And even if they were, that information is only good if the person who filled out that 4473 Form, still retains ownership of that firearm.

    If it was sold or traded in a private transaction, that Form 4473 is essentially useless information.
    You are correct. Or for those unlucky ones like me, that were on a deer hunt and the deer stole my rifle and on the way home my canoe rolled and the other guns fell in Lake Buchanan well, at least that was last year in December before the promise of a new year in 2020.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    You are correct. Or for those unlucky ones like me, that were on a deer hunt and the deer stole my rifle and on the way home my canoe rolled and the other guns fell in Lake Buchanan well, at least that was last year in December before the promise of a new year in 2020.

    William, you REALLY need to stay away from those thieving deer!
     

    John Galt

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 17, 2020
    388
    76
    Huntsville
    As was mentioned before, .gov doesn't necessarily know the make or s/n of your guns but I bet they have a good idea of how many and what type.

    Purchased 5.56 ammo lately on the internet? Got a new sight for your Glock delivered to your door?

    It doesn't take a team of guys combing through 4473s, it takes a handful if guys and an algorithm monitoring your purchases. Think they're not?



     
    Top Bottom