Bill of sale?

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

I never have this problem.

Why not?

I give away guns (never sell) to family members or friends.

None of them have ever pestered me for a bos...

 

[Rafe]

Showing a DL or LTC is one thing, but letting folks take a photo or copy info: that's s not happening...

Agree completely. You ain't even gettin' a photo of me, much less of my ID.

 

[Shady]

> "Give cash get gun thems da rules of law regarding transferring a firearm in TX."

Well, no. Not entirely. A refresher might be in order. It's Texas Penal Code §46.06, BTW.

As one example, it is illegal to sell any firearm to someone who is under the age of 18; if the firearm sold was a handgun, that's a state jail felony. And if you give me a name pre-sale and that name isn't the one on your ID, that could arguably run into the first clause of that PC section.

Don't know about you, but it takes me all of about 6 seconds to access my wallet and show LTC or DL. I don't understand how that is some massive overcomplication to the process.

It may be a shock, but I also support the requirement to present a valid form of identification in order to vote. We have around 15 million freshly-minted illegals in the country just since the start of the Biden/Harris administration. IMHO, they should not be able to vote in the elections of this country. Nor should they be able to legally purchase firearms. But all else being equal, I can't make the call between illegal migrant and legal resident without ID. And Texas isn't all-blue just yet: DPS still requires that someone verify lawful presence in order to get a DL or state ID.

I always thought the law was if you knowingly sell to someone unable to purchase/own a firearm you can get into trouble.

So if you don't ask you don't know.

Less is more.

So if you want to complicate it good for you but why stop at seeing an ID go for broke and a DNA sample.

Reading is Fundamental

Sec. 46.06. UNLAWFUL TRANSFER OF CERTAIN WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) sells, rents, leases, loans, or gives a handgun to any person knowing that the person to whom the handgun is to be delivered intends to use it unlawfully or in the commission of an unlawful act;

(2) intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give to any child younger than 18 years of age any firearm, club, or location-restricted knife;

(3) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly sells a firearm or ammunition for a firearm to any person who is intoxicated;

(4) knowingly sells a firearm or ammunition for a firearm to any person who has been convicted of a felony before the fifth anniversary of the later of the following dates:

(A) the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony; or

(B) the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision following conviction of the felony;

(5) sells, rents, leases, loans, or gives a handgun to any person knowing that an active protective order is directed to the person to whom the handgun is to be delivered;

(6) knowingly purchases, rents, leases, or receives as a loan or gift from another a handgun while an active protective order is directed to the actor; or

(7) while prohibited from possessing a firearm under state or federal law, knowingly makes a material false statement on a form that is:

(A) required by state or federal law for the purchase, sale, or other transfer of a firearm; and

(B) submitted to a firearms dealer licensed under 18 U.S.C. Section 923.

(b) In this section:

(1) "Intoxicated" means substantial impairment of mental or physical capacity resulting from introduction of any substance into the body.

(2) "Active protective order" means a protective order issued under Title 4, Family Code, that is in effect. The term does not include a temporary protective order issued before the court holds a hearing on the matter.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(2) that the transfer was to a minor whose parent or the person having legal custody of the minor had given written permission for the sale or, if the transfer was other than a sale, the parent or person having legal custody had given effective consent.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that:

(1) an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a state jail felony if the weapon that is the subject of the offense is a handgun; and

(2) an offense under Subsection (a)(7) is a state jail felony.


AND I am glad you dont need to show ID to validate the 2nd amendment.

I am all for ID to vote.

 

[oldag]

I never have this problem.

Why not?

I give away guns (never sell) to family members or friends.

None of them have ever pestered me for a bos...

Doing any adoptions any time soon?

 

[MountainGirl]

I always thought the law was if you knowingly sell to someone unable to purchase/own a firearm you can get into trouble.

So if you don't ask you don't know.

Less is more.

So if you want to complicate it good for you but why stop at seeing an ID go for broke and a DNA sample.

Reading is Fundamental

Sec. 46.06. UNLAWFUL TRANSFER OF CERTAIN WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) sells, rents, leases, loans, or gives a handgun to any person knowing that the person to whom the handgun is to be delivered intends to use it unlawfully or in the commission of an unlawful act;

(2) intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give to any child younger than 18 years of age any firearm, club, or location-restricted knife;

(3) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly sells a firearm or ammunition for a firearm to any person who is intoxicated;

(4) knowingly sells a firearm or ammunition for a firearm to any person who has been convicted of a felony before the fifth anniversary of the later of the following dates:

(A) the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony; or

(B) the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision following conviction of the felony;

(5) sells, rents, leases, loans, or gives a handgun to any person knowing that an active protective order is directed to the person to whom the handgun is to be delivered;

(6) knowingly purchases, rents, leases, or receives as a loan or gift from another a handgun while an active protective order is directed to the actor; or

(7) while prohibited from possessing a firearm under state or federal law, knowingly makes a material false statement on a form that is:

(A) required by state or federal law for the purchase, sale, or other transfer of a firearm; and

(B) submitted to a firearms dealer licensed under 18 U.S.C. Section 923.

(b) In this section:

(1) "Intoxicated" means substantial impairment of mental or physical capacity resulting from introduction of any substance into the body.

(2) "Active protective order" means a protective order issued under Title 4, Family Code, that is in effect. The term does not include a temporary protective order issued before the court holds a hearing on the matter.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(2) that the transfer was to a minor whose parent or the person having legal custody of the minor had given written permission for the sale or, if the transfer was other than a sale, the parent or person having legal custody had given effective consent.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that:

(1) an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a state jail felony if the weapon that is the subject of the offense is a handgun; and

(2) an offense under Subsection (a)(7) is a state jail felony.


AND I am glad you dont need to show ID to validate the 2nd amendment.

I am all for ID to vote.

I'm glad they didn't try to define "knowingly".

 

[Whalercohasset]

The last time I asked this question, I did not get a favorable outcome from some members here. I would feel this is a personal transaction between you and the buyer and have a record of said transaction for future use. I usually do not sell too many guns but the ones I did involved a bill of sale you just mentioned.

So, what "future use" can you see for a bill of sale? (other than proving to the jury that you sold a gun to a guy that massacred a bunch of nuns)

 

[Shady]

So, what "future use" can you see for a bill of sale? (other than proving to the jury that you sold a gun to a guy that massacred a bunch of nuns)

Its only future use is as proof you are a gun dealer.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

helotes,

You posted: "If selling a gun that is 'registered to you', you should require and FFL transfer.

WRONG...you're in Texas, not some commie state...no registration of guns in Texas and the FFL transfer isn't required either, when one person is selling to another in Texas...where are you getting your 'mis-information'?

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Some, would also have you believe 'you' as an individual have to perform some kinda 'background check' to sell a gun to an individual here in Texas.

NO, NO, NO you don't!

My gawd, the BS BOS requirement touted by some or a 'background check' for same, or nonsense about registering guns in Texas, or a need for an FFL for an individual to individual sale...this thread must be full out of commie-staters who spew their bs thinking it's the same here as from where they came from...for fk's sake, you're not in a commie state so please, quit spewing crap you know nothing about as to how it's done in Texas...

 

[Mohawk600]

Some, would also have you believe 'you' as an individual have to perform some kinda 'background check' to sell a gun to an individual here in Texas.

NO, NO, NO you don't!

My gawd, the BS BOS requirement touted by some or a 'background check' for same, or nonsense about registering guns in Texas, or a need for an FFL for an individual to individual sale...this thread must be full out of commie-staters who spew their bs thinking it's the same here as from where they came from...for fk's sake, you're not in a commie state so please, quit spewing crap you know nothing about as to how it's done in Texas...

low information gun owners

 

[ScottDLS]

Just to point out the absolute lack of requirement for a bill of sale, there is not even a requirement for a FFL to produce one when selling OR buying. If you are buying from a FFL, they will usually give you one, but the 4473 form for YOU to fill out is all they are required to do. I sold a gun to FFL in Dallas around 2004 and I wanted a BOS (just for my records) and they gave me a handwritten note on a blank paper.

 

[zackmars]

I don't know what y'all are talking about. I don't think this has anything to do with Fallout.

 

[DoubleDuty]

What about a BOS for pocket knives or ammo?

I remember that one

 

[alternative]

Bill of Sale was once recommended by Texas Law Shield attorneys but now they DO NOT recommend using one, mainly so you are not looked at as a dealer. Do what is required by law, no more-no less.

 

[Rafe]

I always thought the law was if you knowingly sell to someone unable to purchase/own a firearm you can get into trouble.

So if you don't ask you don't know.

Less is more.

So if you want to complicate it good for you but why stop at seeing an ID go for broke and a DNA sample.

Reading is Fundamental

Thank you SO much for quoting the section of the PC that I pointed you to in the first place.

I'm glad they didn't try to define "knowingly".

Actually, it is defined, also in the Penal Code, I won't specify exactly where; Shady can do his own damned research.

In brief, "A person acts knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to circumstances surrounding his conduct when he is aware of the nature of his conduct or that the circumstances exist."

In the past, I've been given to understand that this is meant to draw a bright line between an action performed with intent of forethought as opposed to one occurring due to an accident, mistake, or other innocent reason.

For example, let's say that the Uvalde shooter had been 17 instead of 18, and Shady had sold him the AR. Do we think that, after an investigation turned up emails and phone GPS records that pointed to Shady as the seller, that his three-monkey "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" approach of "I didn't know because I never asked" would stand him on firm ground with the DA and the jury?

Hell no. He knowingly sold the firearm. That you don't actively look for road signs isn't going to let you skate a ticket for doing 70 in a 35. Willful ignorance is never going to work as an excuse.

Most of the law isn't written to tell you what you must do; the bulk of it is to tell you what you cannot do. Otherwise the statutes would be a factor of magnitude longer than they already are.

 

[PinnedandRecessed]

Another BOS thread going exactly the way we all knew it would go. Where's the OP?

 

[V-Tach]

Scab..................remove............bleed...................

repeat.....................repeat.................repeat.............

 

[Hoji]

> "Give cash get gun thems da rules of law regarding transferring a firearm in TX."

Well, no. Not entirely. A refresher might be in order. It's Texas Penal Code §46.06, BTW.

As one example, it is illegal to sell any firearm to someone who is under the age of 18; if the firearm sold was a handgun, that's a state jail felony. And if you give me a name pre-sale and that name isn't the one on your ID, that could arguably run into the first clause of that PC section.

Don't know about you, but it takes me all of about 6 seconds to access my wallet and show LTC or DL. I don't understand how that is some massive overcomplication to the process.

It may be a shock, but I also support the requirement to present a valid form of identification in order to vote. We have around 15 million freshly-minted illegals in the country just since the start of the Biden/Harris administration. IMHO, they should not be able to vote in the elections of this country. Nor should they be able to legally purchase firearms. But all else being equal, I can't make the call between illegal migrant and legal resident without ID. And Texas isn't all-blue just yet: DPS still requires that someone verify lawful presence in order to get a DL or state ID.

Wellllllllll, Bearing Arms is an enumerated Right and voting is not soooooooo.

 

[Hoji]

helotes,

You posted: "If selling a gun that is 'registered to you', you should require and FFL transfer.

WRONG...you're in Texas, not some commie state...no registration of guns in Texas and the FFL transfer isn't required either, when one person is selling to another in Texas...where are you getting your 'mis-information'?

Welllllllll, there are NFA items sooooooooo.

 

[innominate]

It isn't illegal to purchase a long gun in another state. It is illegal to sell a long gun in another state.

I'm assuming you mean to an individual. I've had a couple vodak so I may have missed part of the conversation.