150 Armed Militia take over Oregon Federal Building

[Whistler]

IF he reached before the shot, I'd call it justified.

You just don't grab for anything in a situation like this.


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No argument from me, my point was zinc saying he was "reaching into an area where he had a gun" and "going for an area WHERE YOU HAVE A PISTOL", something the officers had no way to know at the time. Personally I wouldn't have reached for a damn thing but you can't say he was reaching for a pistol until you know he had a pistol, facts are facts, stating it in that fashion is trying to bias the listener.

We don't really know why he was reaching, to retrieve a weapon or... doesn't matter really, bad move.

 

[zincwarrior]

How do you know they didn't shoot BEFORE he lowered his hands??

He might have done that AFTER they fired on him.

This is true. Without sound, better pictures or other pictures we can't confirm. Welcome to the world of Black Lives Matter. Hands up! Don't Shoot!

One point zinc, they didn't know what he had in that pocket until after they shot him. Not saying I'd wait if a guy was reaching just saying it's irrelevant/fact not in evidence at the time. Can't say he was "reaching for a pistol" only that he was reaching, possibly for a weapon.

Again agreed. In this instance, reaching for anything gets you shot. I can't fault the police for that.

 

[oldag]

Could he have been injured from running into the snowbank? Pain that was making him reach to his side?

Was a shot fired that missed?

Why did that idiot run in front of the truck as it went into the snow bank?

We just don't know.

Given this had been peaceful up to this point, seems like the LEO's may have been a tad quick to shoot.

 

[shinnosuke]

The video is from the helicopter. They do not dangle a microphone down from the helicopter to the ambush so the audio (if any) would also contain a lot of wop-wop-wop, right? Perhaps there would be some conversation between the occupants in the copter and somebody on the ground, but probably not the shooters.

To get the best audio don't we need dashcam/bodycam video?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

The video is from the helicopter. They do not dangle a microphone down from the helicopter to the ambush so the audio (if any) would also contain a lot of wop-wop-wop, right? Perhaps there would be some conversation between the occupants in the copter and somebody on the ground, but probably not the shooters.

To get the best audio don't we need dashcam/bodycam video?

Are you certain it's not from a drone?

 

[TheDan]

I don't get the flash bangs by the vehicle. I would think that doing that might shock the passengers into opening up, even if they were previously complying.

Right? If you think you're going to die anyways then why not defend yourself? Then whoever is left standing can claim it's justified. Without audio or better video we have no idea. The people in the vehicle might have been aggressive.

At what point is the first shot fired?

He initially has his hands up, and then lowers them, "appearing" to reach for something.
Did they fire when his hands were up, or, after he lowered them.

There is no sound, how can one tell when the first shot is fired?

Yep, it's really hard to tell from that video why he moved his arms to his side. Was he reaching for a weapon, or was he grabbing his side where he was shot?

In this instance, reaching for anything gets you shot. I can't fault the police for that.

Yeah if you're going to surrender you might as well just go ahead and lay down and don't move. They are going to put you there anyways.

 

[Younggun]

Could he have been injured from running into the snowbank? Pain that was making him reach to his side?

Was a shot fired that missed?

Why did that idiot run in front of the truck as it went into the snow bank?

We just don't know.

Given this had been peaceful up to this point, seems like the LEO's may have been a tad quick to shoot.

I guess of trying to ram your way around a road block and slamming in to a snow bank is considered "peaceful".


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[shinnosuke]

Are you certain it's not from a drone?

No, good question. I'm certain I don't like what I see in the video. That's about all I can say for sure.

 

[oldag]

I guess of trying to ram your way around a road block and slamming in to a snow bank is considered "peaceful".


Sent from my HAL 9000

Up to the point of this encounter, it had been peaceful. Do you not comprehend the words "up to this point".

Secondly, if he had wanted to ram the vehicles, he would have done so. No vehicle was rammed.

Do you know what were the road conditions? How do you know he did not swerve to the side to avoid hitting the roadblock vehicles because he could not stop in time with slick roads?

 

[Younggun]

Up to the point of this encounter, it had been peaceful. Do you not comprehend the words "up to this point".

Secondly, if he had wanted to ram the vehicles, he would have done so. No vehicle was rammed.

Do you know what were the road conditions? How do you know he did not swerve to the side to avoid hitting the roadblock vehicles because he could not stop in time with slick roads?

I said around, not through. Never mentioned him wanting to hit a vehicle.


We can both play the reading comprehension game. When he ran from the stop and tried to blow his way around the road block, "remained peaceful" no longer applies.

Anything is peaceful until it isn't.


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[Younggun]

At 9:29 on the full length video, he puts both hands down to his left waist. At 9:30 there appears to be something in his left hand, hard to say due to vid quality. Hand not visible, somewhere in front with back to camera and officer near highway from 931 to shot fired at 932/933. Appears to be shot by officer with rifle who came out of the woods.


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[Younggun]

Flash bangs start at 9:54. I can only we 3 objects hit the truck. No visible signs of it being a hail of gunfire. No dirt or paint knocked off passenger side of vehicle. Appears passenger side windows were shot out as well as windshield. I'd guess bean bags were used. Just a guess though.

Note: at ~13:20 you can see a red laser shining on dead body.


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[Younggun]

Stopped watching at 15:24


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[grasshopperglock]

No, good question. I'm certain I don't like what I see in the video. That's about all I can say for sure.

It's been pointed out elsewhere that the trees don't show any helicopter down draft. They're still. There's no snow flying around either. From the angles of the camera, turns, and overall smoothness....


I'd vote drone.

 

[Mikeinhistory]

It's been pointed out elsewhere that the trees don't show any helicopter down draft. They're still. There's no snow flying around either. From the angles of the camera, turns, and overall smoothness....


I'd vote drone.

I think in the original accompanying article they say it's a drone.


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[grasshopperglock]

Another thing being brought up. During the FBI conference it was mentioned that if any pops or crackling can be heard in the video. It's gun fire.

Then continues with saying there's no audio.

 

[Younggun]

I'm a bit surprised at the crappiness of the video quality then, although I'm sure the upload size of the original would make the YouTube servers catch fire.


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[Younggun]

Another thing being brought up. During the FBI conference it was mentioned that if any pops or crackling can be heard in the video. It's gun fire.

Then continues with saying there's no audio.

There is no way they could get audio from that particular video. It wouldn't be possible to have anything useable from it.

Only audio would be from ground based cameras. Wonder if they will release any dash cam footage/radio chatter. Being that everyone was within yelling distance, the radio chatter may not tell much of a story.

Does the FBI use dash cams?


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[bones_708]

He wasn't putting his hands up? What were those two lanky things extending out from his body near his head? If he was going to shoot, wouldn't he have been better off having it when he came out of the truck? I'm curious if in a panic and rush of emotions, he was simply trying to pull out his gun and toss it to the side.

Absolutely a possibility with what I have seen so far, but that would still mean his hands came down. They were not up at the time of the shooting.

 

[Younggun]

His hands were down long before he was. He didn't flinch or jerk when he first lowered them to his waste as you would expect from someone grabbing a gun shot wound.


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