150 Armed Militia take over Oregon Federal Building

[ZX9RCAM]

At what point is the first shot fired?

He initially has his hands up, and then lowers them, "appearing" to reach for something.
Did they fire when his hands were up, or, after he lowered them.

There is no sound, how can one tell when the first shot is fired?

One thing eerily similar to the B&C ambush was the officer(s) hiding in the woods.

 

[Younggun]

Was the road block already set up? How long has it been there?


Seems I remember reading they had the roads closed for a while.


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[ZX9RCAM]

Was the road block already set up? How long has it been there?


Seems I remember reading they had the roads closed for a while.


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Almost had to have been, unless they stopped to let that officer take a leak in the trees....

 

[Younggun]

I don't find having someone in the trees all that suspicious, given the circumstances.


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[ZX9RCAM]

I don't find having someone in the trees all that suspicious, given the circumstances.


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You mean without a roadblock set up?
You questioned whether they had been there for a while.


And, I never called it suspicious.

 

[Younggun]

You mean without a roadblock set up?
You questioned whether they had been there for a while.


And, I never called it suspicious.

Assuming they had been there for a while.


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[ZX9RCAM]

Assuming they had been there for a while.


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It did put them in a crossfire scenario, though....

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Yea, that officer coming out of the woods had ambush written all over it.

I know it was a bad idea for that guy to go for his gun for any reason, but I'm just not seeing "I'm going to shoot you" in his body language. I don't understand how that officer thought it was a good idea running out in front of that truck flying through there. A body cam and audio would be helpful for sure.

 

[zincwarrior]

Yea, that officer coming out of the woods had ambush written all over it.

I know it was a bad idea for that guy to go for his gun for any reason, but I'm just not seeing "I'm going to shoot you" in his body language. I don't understand how that officer thought it was a good idea running out in front of that truck flying through there. A body cam and audio would be helpful for sure.

Doesn't matter. His hand was reaching into the area where he had a gun. Thats how it works. Make a sudden move in a high pressure stop going for the area WHERE YOU HAVE A PISTOL and they will shoot you as you now are a clear and present threat. Any resident of Southern California knows that. Those that don't end up on the weeknight body count news report.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Did you delete some posts?

Yes, unnecessary ones.


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[ZX9RCAM]

Doesn't matter. His hand was reaching into the area where he had a gun. Thats how it works. Make a sudden move in a high pressure stop going for the area WHERE YOU HAVE A PISTOL and they will shoot you as you now are a clear and present threat. Any resident of Southern California knows that. Those that don't end up on the weeknight body count news report.

How do you know they didn't shoot BEFORE he lowered his hands??

He might have done that AFTER they fired on him.

 

[Whistler]

Doesn't matter. His hand was reaching into the area where he had a gun. Thats how it works. Make a sudden move in a high pressure stop going for the area WHERE YOU HAVE A PISTOL and they will shoot you as you now are a clear and present threat. Any resident of Southern California knows that. Those that don't end up on the weeknight body count news report.

One point zinc, they didn't know what he had in that pocket until after they shot him. Not saying I'd wait if a guy was reaching just saying it's irrelevant/fact not in evidence at the time. Can't say he was "reaching for a pistol" only that he was reaching, possibly for a weapon.

 

[Younggun]

That's where audio would help.

I can't tell if he was shot for reaching, or grabbed at a would after being shot.


At that range with a carbine, if think they could keep it center mass in which case he seemed to be reaching pretty low for a wound.


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[Mexican_Hippie]

I wouldnt reach for anything. You put your hands out the window. You keep them ass far away from the center of your body as possible. In that situation I wouldn't have put them near my body or pockets even if they told me to. IF you're paranoid, they could be asking you to disarm only to shoot you when you touch it, so why go for it at all?

Lay down, hands way out there, and let them disarm you.


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[Younggun]

One point zinc, they didn't know what he had in that pocket until after they shot him. Not saying I'd wait if a guy was reaching just saying it's irrelevant/fact not in evidence at the time. Can't say he was "reaching for a pistol" only that he was reaching, possibly for a weapon.

IF he reached before the shot, I'd call it justified.

You just don't grab for anything in a situation like this.


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[ZX9RCAM]

That's where audio would help.

I can't tell if he was shot for reaching, or grabbed at a would after being shot.


At that range with a carbine, if think they could keep it center mass in which case he seemed to be reaching pretty low for a wound.


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There also could have been a complete miss by one of the officers handguns, then he lowered his hands to go for a weapon.

Mute point without audio.

One reason this video might have been released (without audio) is because it SEEMS pretty cut & dried.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

IF he reached before the shot, I'd call it justified.

You just don't grab for anything in a situation like this.


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Absolutely!

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

There also could have been a complete miss by one of the officers handguns, then he lowered his hands to go for a weapon.

Mute point without audio.

One reason this video might have been released (without audio) is because it SEEMS pretty cut & dried.

Audio would confirm that one way or the other. IF they shot at him while his hands were up he is justified defending himself, and the officer(s) shooting should be hung. That's a real big IF though.


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[ZX9RCAM]

Audio would confirm that one way or the other. IF they shot at him while his hands were up he is justified defending himself, and the officer(s) shooting should be hung. That's a real big IF though.


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Goes without saying...

 

[grasshopperglock]

Or have the FBI switch to FLIR view on the tax paid for camera. The options are blacked out on the video.


Then you could see a better view of cold metal and hot hands. It'd also show which firearm was fired first by the heat sig.

None of us will ever see that version.