Shotguns for defense: Why bother or why would you overlook them!?

[Andy]

I'm not reddog.

 

[Andy]

I have.

What's your point?

Let him answer for himself - see if he can figure it out.

 

[Younggun]

Better ask this dude:

He seems to believe he can put 15 bullets in the air faster than a single shot from a 12-gauge

Again, read the original post by reddog regarding shotguns at longer ranges. You are applying an argument to a completely different scenario.

At least reddog made his claims using slugs whereas you claim the same with buckshot, never accounting for the context if the argument, only picking from the post to twist the scenario.

 

[breakingcontact]

Well you can shoot more rounds out of a carbine faster than a shotgun. That's a fact.

Will we need more than a few shots when the time comes? Who knows.

There is a point as well with a 556 round not fragmenting consistently and it may indeed take more of them to put a threat down.

We shouldn't run any one down for their choice. If you can get the job done with an over/under or a single shot then it worked for you.

Whats "best" is variable based on user, situation and setting.

 

[Younggun]

I'm not reddog.

But you decided to jump in and take his place, so you should know the context of the argument you decided to involve yourself in.

 

[breakingcontact]

To answer my own question: I have a hard time getting on board with modernity and believing shotguns are obsolete due to carbines.

Im trying to figure out where it does fit in. Perhaps the shotgun makes sense to me but when it runs dry just sling it and go to the pistol?

I know bird shot doesn't dissolve when it hits walls but I also know 556 rounds dont consistently fragment.

I have a hard time with the idea of shooting a rifle inside. I suppose thats all about know whats behind the target with any gun.

 

[Andy]

Well you can shoot more rounds out of a carbine faster than a shotgun. That's a fact.

Absolutely true - but I'm not arguing rounds, I'm discussing projectiles, those things which actually hit someone. You mentioned efficiency - well, a shotgun is extremely efficient in that regard, both time-wise and legally.

If you prefer an AR-15, awesome - I'll be picking mine up too, in the very rare and unlikely event that a fight goes long-distance

 

[Andy]

But you decided to jump in and take his place, so you should know the context of the argument you decided to involve yourself in.

You're the dude claiming he can put more lead downrange with an AR15 faster than a shotgun - prove it. A Youtube video of you will be acceptable.

 

[Younggun]

Another way to look at this.

Swat teams commonly deal with close quarters encounters with BGs.

They have 1 guy with a shotgun which tends to be used for breaching a door, then as a weapon.

Everyone else on the team tends to carry an SMG (MP5) or carbine (M4).

Seems there is a reason they don't all load out with shotguns and buckshot but tend to rely heavily on other styles of weapons.

Yes, just about every cop has a shotgun in the car. Every state trooper also carries an AR locked down in the rack right beside it. I can't say if other departments do the same because many probably have limited budgets.


You've been in combat, why aren't infantry loaded out with Mossbergs when clearing a building in Afghanistan instead of carrying carbines. He'll, shotguns are cheap. The military loves cheap.


I have a shotgun. It lives with an 18" barrel and #4 buck except during dove season. Would I feel it adequate to defend myself, yes. But I believe I have better tools at my disposal and would prefer them to the Mossberg. But I'll take whichever is closest.

 

[breakingcontact]

Absolutely true - but I'm not arguing rounds, I'm discussing projectiles, those things which actually hit someone. You mentioned efficiency - well, a shotgun is extremely efficient in that regard, both time-wise and legally.

If you prefer an AR-15, awesome - I'll be picking mine up too, in the very rare and unlikely event that a fight goes long-distance

Youre about to make me do some math.

 

[Younggun]

You're the dude claiming he can put more lead downrange with an AR15 faster than a shotgun - prove it. A Youtube video of you will be acceptable.

Happy to.

In the context of the argument, you put as many pellets on target at 50 yard with your shotgun as quickly as possible and I'll do the same with a carbine.

Or are you trying to change the context of the post again?

How bout transitions. You get your hit on three targets with a shotgun and I'll get mine with a carbine. See who's fastest at 25 yards.

 

[Younggun]

To answer my own question: I have a hard time getting on board with modernity and believing shotguns are obsolete due to carbines.

Im trying to figure out where it does fit in. Perhaps the shotgun makes sense to me but when it runs dry just sling it and go to the pistol?

I know bird shot doesn't dissolve when it hits walls but I also know 556 rounds dont consistently fragment.

I have a hard time with the idea of shooting a rifle inside. I suppose thats all about know whats behind the target with any gun.

Shotguns aren't obsolete.

 

[Andy]

Tell you fellers something, I'd feel FAR more comfortable with an AR or AK in my hands - but if we're talking efficiency and power PER SHOT in a home defense environment (I stress PER SHOT because it will come up in court), a 12-ga has them all beat.

I absolutely know where you're coming from, too - I happen to LOVE my rifles (AR, AK and FAL) and prefer them above all else - I just don't see them as the single best option for everything.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Follow up shots matter. Find someone that can shoot and transition to another target with a shotgun faster than a carbine who has equal experience with both.

It's a matter of physics. A shotgun requires more energy to manage the recoil whereas a carbine allows that energy to be put in to transitioning to another target, or staying on target to deliver follow up shots.

Not gonna lie...I read this and look forward to the challenge at the tac lanes. I'm about as confident with my AR as I am with my shotgun, so I'm willing to step up and give it a shot just for fun But I agree-your average non-range regular gun owner would still be trying to recover from the first shot and thinking to rack the slide while the AR shooter could be just tearing shit up.

 

[NOLA Jack]

No I haven't, how is that relevant to this?

 

[Younggun]

Not gonna lie...I read this and look forward to the challenge at the tac lanes. I'm about as confident with my AR as I am with my shotgun, so I'm willing to step up and give it a shot just for fun But I agree-your average non-range regular gun owner would still be trying to recover from the first shot and thinking to rack the slide while the AR shooter could be just tearing shit up.

Your a shotgun freak, lol.

Shotguns are a useful tool. We should do it at Hicksville one day for kicks.

 

[breakingcontact]

What distances we talking about? Im talking about IN the house. If its anything outside then that carbine is the winner and thats a whole different issue in terms of perimeter defense and at some point we aren't talking home defense.

Thats a good point though. Setting. I live in a small house in a subdivision.

You country folk might have out buildings and such and be defending your life on your property not just in your house.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Damn, I wanna try this. Even if I get my ass smoked with an AR vs Shotgun, it'll still be a fun challenge!

 

[Andy]

Happy to.

In the context of the argument, you put as many pellets on target at 50 yard with your shotgun as quickly as possible and I'll do the same with a carbine.

Or are you trying to change the context of the post again?

How bout transitions. You get your hit on three targets with a shotgun and I'll get mine with a carbine. See who's fastest at 25 yards.

The subject is home defense, so 25 yards is perfectly acceptable to me - I'll be using #1 buck, so let's see how long it takes you to put 15 holes in each of those 3 targets at 25 yards.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Do I sense an additonal 25 yard shotgun vs AR competition coming up? Someone needs to build some wood stands that they don't care about getting tore up by buckshot.