Well,they did it.

[texas skeeter]

Interesting. Do you have any sources, (articles, research, statistics) from which any of these statements are derived?

which part? alot was said. but as to both, your answer is um, HISTORY!!

 

[LonghornAR15]

Well, I got the impression that you were saying that most 1st generation european immigrants were quick to assimilate, learn english, and "conform to the american way of life". What do you base this on? Anything that you can substantiate?

 

[Clockwork]

Likewise my friend, sorry not feeling that leftist nonsense you try to defend.

You don't know me, so don't pretend to.

 

[texas skeeter]

i guess all the schools i went to were wrong, and all the history channel shows that ive watched over the yrs and possibly any literature ive also seen regarding this topic and my way of thinking in 43 yrs are all wrong?? since i dont have about 3 hrs to search the topic and post here to satisfy you. im sorry there senior longhorn.atriot: i should have known, you're from austin..... hey ive got a good idea, why dont you prove me wrong. or should i say, please elaborate where i went wrong in my statement. OH, and my parents at the age of 75 ish the most liberal democrats i know on earth who claimed the same thing are wrong too??

 

[LonghornAR15]

It's not really necessary for me to disprove a claim in order to cast doubt on its validity. However, I did find this that I thought was an interesting read:

UW-Madison: Creating Community: Study debunks myth that early immigrants quickly learned English

It's worth pointing out too that your complaints about all the "new immigrants" (read: mexicans) is that they are almost identical to what everyone said about early european immigrants. It's a convenient thing to believe that the "new immigrants" that you don't like are in some way radically different from the "old immigrants" that many of us descended from, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

On a personal level, I find many of the baseless anti-immigration remarks to be really irritating since I know people who came to this country illegally. I grew up in a small Texas town, and one of my friends mothers came here illegally from El Salvador as a refugee from a civil war. She came to Texas speaking no english and with nothing to her name. She worked hard, learned english, and had some extraordinarily good fortune and luck as well. She raised two kids, both college graduates, one of whom is an architect, and the other a nutritionist and a local singer-songwriter. She still doesn't have her citizenship, and her family is about as american as you can get.

Another person I went to high school with was born in Mexico and moved here illegally with his farmworker parents, does not have his citizenship, and got a graduate degree in engineering from Texas A&M.

These people are better citizens than most native born americans, and have busted their asses to get where they are. They have not asked for hand outs, nor have they been given any. They stand in stark contradiction to your unsubstantiated generalities about modern immigrants.

That being said, I would still love to see some support for your claims. Otherwise, I will have no problem discounting them entirely.

 

[texas skeeter]

once again senior Longhorn you misconstrue what i stated. first off , where did i say the early immigrants learned speed english?? second, the immigrants you know and speak of are not in the same group iam speaking of. i stated early immigrants vs the now group OBVIOUSLY. your mothers friend is not part of the ILLEGALS of the last 2 decades. furthermore she sounds like she did raise her kids the same way your parents and mine raised us. and you know as well as i do i am griping about todays immigrant. you can make all the excuses you want, but i lived in california the first 40 yrs of my life and saw what i stated first hand how they've help ruin that state!! a good 65-70% of male construction workers that were on the larger construction jobs spoke absolutely NO english and even told me they had no desire to. many of them had been here 5-10 yrs or so and STILL dont speak english. and as far as your ILLEGAL friends not taking handouts, that may be true. but this country spends on an avg 350$ billion a yr "quoted from the L.A. times/ a liberal run newspaper" to aid once again ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!! and furthermore california one of the SAFEHAVEN STATES that basically does nothing about the problem and makes it extremely difficult on the border patrol to actually arrest I.I's by the rules they apply on purpose!! and last but not least, i was run out of business in that/my home state even by following the rules/ laws of that state. i could not compete against I.I. labor run companies and had to lay off 15 TRUELY BORN AMERICANS and close my business!! california on an avg spends approx 12-15$ billion a yr on them and the state is near bankruptcy!! so you can make all the excuses you want in the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT DEBATE, BUT IT JUST AMAZES ME that your way of thinking just keeps hurting this country and we have enough of everything for everyone!! you should go live in cali cause you think just the way they do!! and look at how that turned out. i thank god texas is run mostly by conservatives and is why i moved here. ive seen what DUMOCRATS DID TO MY HOME STATE!! california is a proven case study that ILLEGALS actually do hurt this country!! I witnessed it and lived it!! now dont get me wrong, i would let ANY immigrant into this country if they went through the proper procedures or even if they did make it in ILLEGALLY, HECK let em stay, JUST WHY DO WE HAVE TO SUPPORT THEM??????????? I could write an endless list of the things they can receive with no questions asked that most americans dont qualify for. now WHY IS THAT?????? LASTLY, my grandfather as a boy came here legally with his family.... they didnt jump a fence and LEACH off of this country ever.

 

[texas skeeter]

SORRY all for the war and peace novel. but i could go on for pages on HOW ILLEGALS HURT THIS COUNTRY!! google post office boxes and ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT FRAUD in san yisidro, ca. and who rents them all and why. i'll give ya the answer, the state of california had determined that approx 8000 p.o.bxs are rented in its southern most cities by I.I's to collect a welfare check once a month. once the monthly check is cashed, they hop right back across the border to where they live and come back a month later for their next check!! SERIOUSLY ITS SICKENING ESPECIALLY when born/bred americans here legally are starving and out of work AND DONT QUALIFY FOR WELFARE in MANY STATES!! but then ole Lonhorn will JUST say Oh, we need to love everyone and leave the south gate open for all!! shall i go on longhorn cause i can write oh probably 20 or more horror stories ive seen first hand regarding your lil ILLEGAL buddies and how they help ruin this country?? or at least california.

 

[Clockwork]

I can understand a 1st generation immigrant to not speak English. English is one of the most difficult languages in the world to learn, after all. What I have a problem with is the 2nd and 3rd generations in that same family being deliberately raised to NOT speak English. I hate having to press '1' to continue in English. Why lower the bar for people?

 

[texas skeeter]

well you can obviously tell i agree with you CW. the truely funny part is, its either lazyiness or just plain STUPIDITY they dont learn the english language, cause both my little ones were speaking it by the age of 2!!

 

[LonghornAR15]

but then ole Lonhorn will JUST say Oh, we need to love everyone...

Yes, I would say that. But I'm not here to wage an argument about values. You make some valid points, my only concern is that broad generalities and fiery rhetoric just fuel xenophobia and don't really contribute to an effective, practical approach to solving the immigration problem. Yes, I said problem. It's most definitely a very flawed system in place, but the problem is a very complex one that demands a more thought out solution than "Deport them all" The things that you've described happening in California are not OK, I don't condone them. The problem is that most people on the left and right are not providing reasonable solutions to the situation. But I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Also, you used the word "dumocrats". I thought this was refreshing. It's a lot more clever than "libtards", which bothers me more than anything because it's just not very funny. But I digress. I understand where you're coming from, and I don't have all the answers. That's probably because I'm from Austin, though.

 

[jarguello74]

I can understand a 1st generation immigrant to not speak English. English is one of the most difficult languages in the world to learn, after all. What I have a problem with is the 2nd and 3rd generations in that same family being deliberately raised to NOT speak English. I hate having to press '1' to continue in English. Why lower the bar for people?

I totally agree with you but what I hate more is pressing one for english and still not understanding what the heck they are saying

 

[RogerEMT]

I'm with skeeter 100% on this one. Can we go to mexico and make them press "1" for English? Hell no...

 

[MAJIK_BONE_77]

Not to get into the middle of a discussion, but I think the issue here should not be about who speaks english, or who is or is not a "good person" when they come to this country, the issue should be are the people who come here legal, or illegal.

If a person comes here legally then most of the other problems work themselves out after that. For instance if a person comes here legally then they aren't going to be getting paid a lower wage then anyone else, because they have to be paid a comparable wage by law ie. minimum wage, then u have the problem with illegals taking contract work, and other work from legally employed, or employing companies.

Also if someone is here legally, and would have to be paid a decent wage, the employeer would expect them to speak english, and not be willing to put up with someone who doesn't in the interest of saving money, so people who came here would have a reason to lean english.

And for the record the largest difference between immigrants of today, and those of yesteryear is that in today's political society an illegal immigrant is given more rights, and less inconveniences ie. taxes, and paying for health care, having to worry about taking care of your family instead of knowing that there are government funded programs to help u do that, and in the past before progressive changes to immigration a person was expected to take care of themselves, or their community (which was usually segmented off into people from the same area of the world) would help take care of them until they were able to do it on their own, there was no government assistance, in fact there was more government abuses of these people, especially in times of war. In world war I many immigrants who had not been here that long, and many who didn't even speak english properly yet were all but forced to serve in the military, being told it was their duty if they wanted to live here, now was this legal ......... no, but it worked.

I have no doubt that there are illegals who come here and are good hard working people, and there are ones who come here legally who just come here to take advantage of the system, I've have met, and worked with both types. But it all boils down to Legal or Illegal, one is the right way, and the other should not be allowed period, hence the word "illegal" I have no problem with anyone coming here legally, that's what America is all about, and I am proud to live in this country because of it, but the law should be undisputable, come here legally or leave, period.

 

[RogerEMT]

Hell yah jarguello.. Press "1" for english only to get a middle eastern man that sounds like that gas station worker on the simpsons...

 

[RogerEMT]

Tell it Majik!

 

[LonghornAR15]

Hell yah jarguello.. Press "1" for english only to get a middle eastern man that sounds like that gas station worker on the simpsons...

Apu is Indian.

 

[jarguello74]

well you can obviously tell i agree with you CW. the truely funny part is, its either lazyiness or just plain STUPIDITY they dont learn the english language, cause both my little ones were speaking it by the age of 2!!

Wow, you should be proud, I mean learning to speak english at the age of 2 in a house that speaks nothing but english. If they spoke German i would do flips. I do agree with most of what you said, but why is the focus mostly on Mexicans? Not once has anyone ever said anything about the Asian community and how they are taking over our strip malls and resturants and if you go to some of these places, they do not speak english either. Yes there are leeches in every culture, but just because you are mexican, asian , indian, or whatever race doesn't automatically mean you are a leech. That is like me saying because you are white, you are in the KKK. Come on now!

 

[Clockwork]

well you can obviously tell i agree with you CW. the truely funny part is, its either lazyiness or just plain STUPIDITY they dont learn the english language, cause both my little ones were speaking it by the age of 2!!

Well, total immersion is the proven "best way" to learn a language, and human minds are more apt to learn a language at younger ages. Growing up in a home that speaks English and learning to speak English as a result is nothing more than becoming a product of your environment. For a Spanish speaker it would be easier to pick up on similar European languages such as French or Italian, but English is a truly difficult language to master. Many people that grow up speaking English do so poorly and aren't even aware of it. How many adults do you know that can't use the proper versions of its or it's, or to, two, too.

 

[MAJIK_BONE_77]

Wow, you should be proud, I mean learning to speak english at the age of 2 in a house that speaks nothing but english. If they spoke German i would do flips. I do agree with most of what you said, but why is the focus mostly on Mexicans? Not once has anyone ever said anything about the Asian community and how they are taking over our strip malls and resturants and if you go to some of these places, they do not speak english either. Yes there are leeches in every culture, but just because you are mexican, asian , indian, or whatever race doesn't automatically mean you are a leech. That is like me saying because you are white, you are in the KKK. Come on now!

I never mentioned anything about legal or illegal immigrants coming from Mexico or anywhere else, because even though the largest population of illegals is coming from Mexico, the law applies to someone from any country that comes here. But I think that the politics of this discussion wether on this thread or anywhere else has been focused on Mexican immigrants because of the overwhelming percentage of illegal immigrants is coming either from, or through Mexico. Thats not racist, or somehow unfair in anyway, its just a fact of the situation that is being discussed, and debated.

 

[RogerEMT]

Well, total immersion is the proven "best way" to learn a language, and human minds are more apt to learn a language at younger ages. Growing up in a home that speaks English and learning to speak English as a result is nothing more than becoming a product of your environment. For a Spanish speaker it would be easier to pick up on similar European languages such as French or Italian, but English is a truly difficult language to master. Many people that grow up speaking English do so poorly and aren't even aware of it. How many adults do you know that can't use the proper versions of its or it's, or to, two, too.

Your you're...I always catch myself correcting people..