Ukraine invasion

[Younggun]

Close. 2019 Scat Pack Charger. My '16 SS Camaro would get right at 31mpg at 80, but I never averaged it over a long (>100mi) trip.

This guy has the Scat Pack Challenger. It’s a sweet car. He’s offered to let me drive it but o decline due to lack of self control.


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[Darkpriest667]

That was then, this is now. Once log trains and forces disperse from the main ingress routes and mix with indigenous forces, the game changes from interdiction to close air support and that, my friend, is a much different proposition.

Instead of then shooting fish out of a barrel, it’s now shooting a needle in a haystack without harming the hay. Not impossible, but different conditions have to be met for that to occur.

We don't need to give them close Air support, all we need to do is wipe their airplanes out. that is a game changer.

 

[leVieux]

Close. 2019 Scat Pack Charger. My '16 SS Camaro would get right at 31mpg at 80, but I never averaged it over a long (>100mi) trip.

>
Gee, I've never seen anything like that.

Years back in West Texas, I knew a guy who kept a fleet of used Diesel VW "Rabbits", and he told of 30mpg.

You are very lucky !

leVieux
.

 

[leVieux]

We don't need to give them close Air support, all we need to do is wipe their airplanes out. that is a game changer.

>

OK,

but,

Who is "We" ?

 

[Brains]

This guy has the Scat Pack Challenger. It’s a sweet car. He’s offered to let me drive it but o decline due to lack of self control.

You let me shoot your .50 a long ass time ago, so I'd let you drive it. But, you wreck it you bought it.

 

[oldag]

>
Gee, I've never seen anything like that.

Years back in West Texas, I knew a guy who kept a fleet of used Diesel VW "Rabbits", and he told of 30mpg.

You are very lucky !

leVieux
.

Had a '99 Aurora with the Northstar V8 that averaged over 30 on a trip across the panhandle.

 

[RedArmy]

A little about the man we're dealing with, looks like if he were taken out then another despot would just take his place.

 

[Royalecheese]

I know this is getting sidetracked from the Ukraine discussion but I haven't seen this mentioned. Like almost every other problem in the world, having a car with chips was a government created mess. Thanks to their (over) regulations on fuel and mileage and emission considerations, as well as bells and whistles the manufacturers believe we need, we now must have chips in automobiles that control everything. Sure they make things "better" in terms of diagnostics and comfort, but I also remember a time when I could change my own oil, drop my transmission, change plugs, or replace brakes in one afternoon without help from a mechanic. I sure don't want to try any of that on the new cars.

So, a cascade of shite now rains down on the auto industry, which is a huge chunk of the economy, because the government required manufacturers to increase fuel efficiency and reduce emissions. That pushed the manufacturers to look for ways to cut costs, which brought them to chips, which led them overseas for chips and parts because it cost less, which then crapped out thanks to WuFlu and the no inventory/on time/as needed inventory process business relies on now.

God help us if we ever need to convert a widget manufacturer, assuming we still have any when needed, to a weapons manufacturer again like in WW2. With our reliance on overseas material as it stands, we are so screwed right now. We are just lucky it hasn't happened... yet.

Sorry. This whole watching America slowly drown thing has me a bit pissed off. Well, that and the fact all this car talk makes me miss my old 65 Mustang.

 

[popper]

If you don't squish the roach in the kitchen, it will multiply.

 

[Renegade]

We don't need to give them close Air support, all we need to do is wipe their airplanes out. that is a game changer.

It is not an air war, it is a ground war. Like Iraq, like afg…

 

[HKaltwasser]

 

[bbbass]

This guy has the Scat Pack Challenger. It’s a sweet car. He’s offered to let me drive it but o decline due to lack of self control.


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Back in 1969, my Dad let me take his new Charger to High Screwl... told me not to abuse it or I wouldn't get to drive it again. So of course I lit up the tires in the screwl parking lot. However, Dad had followed me in the other car... BUMMER!! (ETA: SNEAKY BASTARD!!!)

>
Gee, I've never seen anything like that.

Years back in West Texas, I knew a guy who kept a fleet of used Diesel VW "Rabbits", and he told of 30mpg.

You are very lucky !

leVieux
.

Nah, I consistently got 50mpg out of my diesel rabbit on the open hwy. Not stop/go traffic, but still.

 

[Brains]

Speed is a major factor. If I would drop my speed down a bit, it'll get mid-high 20's at 70, and maybe even get into the 30's at 65.
That ain't happening.
Most of the trip was trying to stay steady state, but there were several times I had to mat the loud pedal to dispatch a column of slow moving traffic. The kids had fun counting the number of times we went .... fast enough to pass traffic. I'll say this, people in NW TX love to roll fast through all those cotton fields and wind farms. 95mph was the prevailing speed, to the tune of ~18mpg.

It takes a certain amount of technical wizardry to get this kind of fuel economy out of a 6.4L V8. Everything is obviously becoming more electronically complex. The Ukraine has some of the worlds larger known deposits of the metals needed to produce the components needed to build them. Russia isn't stupid, they want to lock that up in a bigger package of Russian nationalism on top of the other reasons they want that territory. While factually true, NATO encroaching on their territory is just another point of justification in the long game of securing that territory as 'theirs.' The more western friendly Ukraine gets, the less of a preferential "partner" they are. I guarantee Russia was feeling the squeeze, and they're really feeling it now.

I don't know how it will play out, but the fight over Ukraine is just getting started, IMHO.

 

[Younggun]

You let me shoot your .50 a long ass time ago, so I'd let you drive it. But, you wreck it you bought it.

I’d have to say no. Just wouldn’t trust myself.

Have a nicer .50 now though. An your welcome to shoot it if we ever have a meet somewhere that allows it.


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[toddnjoyce]

… all we need to do is wipe their airplanes out. that is a game changer.

Oh it’s a game changer all right, just not in ways you think it is.

 

[Younggun]

I know this is getting sidetracked from the Ukraine discussion but I haven't seen this mentioned. Like almost every other problem in the world, having a car with chips was a government created mess. Thanks to their (over) regulations on fuel and mileage and emission considerations, as well as bells and whistles the manufacturers believe we need, we now must have chips in automobiles that control everything. Sure they make things "better" in terms of diagnostics and comfort, but I also remember a time when I could change my own oil, drop my transmission, change plugs, or replace brakes in one afternoon without help from a mechanic. I sure don't want to try any of that on the new cars.

So, a cascade of shite now rains down on the auto industry, which is a huge chunk of the economy, because the government required manufacturers to increase fuel efficiency and reduce emissions. That pushed the manufacturers to look for ways to cut costs, which brought them to chips, which led them overseas for chips and parts because it cost less, which then crapped out thanks to WuFlu and the no inventory/on time/as needed inventory process business relies on now.

God help us if we ever need to convert a widget manufacturer, assuming we still have any when needed, to a weapons manufacturer again like in WW2. With our reliance on overseas material as it stands, we are so screwed right now. We are just lucky it hasn't happened... yet.

Sorry. This whole watching America slowly drown thing has me a bit pissed off. Well, that and the fact all this car talk makes me miss my old 65 Mustang.

Fuel mileage and emissions aren’t necessarily related. Not fully anyways.

Fuel mileage is partially market driven. Probably more so than gov driven. The emissions crap is where most of the problems come from, and often work against maximum fuel mileage.

You won’t get that same mileage with any mechanical fuel injection system. So I believe cars would have gotten chips regardless, plus the majority of consumers want the bells and whistles.


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[leVieux]

Oh it’s a game changer all right, just not in ways you think it is.

Remember, that in any large international war, Russia has but one way to react; missiles. . . . .

 

[Royalecheese]

Fuel mileage and emissions aren’t necessarily related. Not fully anyways.

Fuel mileage is partially market driven. Probably more so than gov driven. The emissions crap is where most of the problems come from, and often work against maximum fuel mileage.

You won’t get that same mileage with any mechanical fuel injection system. So I believe cars would have gotten chips regardless, plus the majority of consumers want the bells and whistles.


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Chips in cars were the result of a need or requirement brought about in some ways by the government interfering in the private sector. In this case, over the past few decades, the government required auto manufacturers to increase fuel mileage and reduce emissions. In order to meet those requirements the manufacturers had to go above what normal mechanical engineering could accomplish. They turned to chips that can make cars more fuel efficient as well as control emissions.

I agree this would probably have happened with or without government interference, but the only way manufacturers can keep up with the government requirements now is to rely more and more on computers. And now the government is pushing for electric vehicles, which not only use computers but rely heavily on batteries which use materials we do not have in abundance in America. And to make it worse, America's auto makers seem to be buying into it.

 

[Brains]

A lot of it came with greater understanding of the internal combustion engine. Engineers were looking for a way to accomplish what couldn't be done mechanically, and electronic controls answer that need.

For instance, lets take something as simple as ignition timing. In the old days, we had points and fixed timing. Set it once, and that's what you got. The cam opened and closed the points gap just like a camshaft opens and closes your valves. It was somewhat ideal at only one operating point, everything else was a big compromise. That evolved to mechanical advance with weights and springs to respond to RPM changes. Then we added vacuum advance to add the concept of engine load into the equation. The next evolution brought in the desire to alter spark timing independent of both of these variables, allowing us to run high compression engines without the need for extremely high octane fuels to curb detonation. The only way to accomplish this was with electronic ignition. Then we figured out we could tune it even more aggressively and get even more power and efficiency by adding sensor inputs and lookup tables inside a microcontroller. Today we have adaptive algorithms that model the actual operating conditions inside the cylinder and use sensor inputs to match actual to the model.

Now add in all of the other powertrain evolutions, and there's simply no way to make a motor and transmission operate the way we've come to expect. We don't have to stab the gas to inject the extra fuel needed at startup, and set the choke to restrict airflow to artificially richen the mixture so it'll idle. We just push a button and expect the motor to flawlessly start itself and idle perfectly, weather conditions not even a concern. We expect no hiccups, surges, stalls, consistent power application, glassy smooth idle, AND good gas mileage. None of this is possible without electronics, and if you think back only a few decades you'll certainly remember all the things you now take for granted.

 

[HKSig]

However, Dad had followed me in the other car... BUMMER!! (ETA: SNEAKY BASTARD!!!)

Smart man.