Ukraine invasion

[leVieux]

I'

You and everyone else who ever had one. Some of them are selling for stupid money.

I'm still driving a 2001 Wrangler, my 2001 B-D present. As we have other vehicles and also had airplanes until a few years ago, it has only 53,700 miles. Great urban driver & worker, but the design of the '73 SCOUT was way more advanced.

 

[Younggun]

I wonder if cars & trucks could be built without "chips" ?

Oh wait !

I remember having many cars & trucks without chips !

Sure.


How about CNC machines, computers, missiles, any competitive military aircraft, power plants, engineering any modern structure (there’s a reason building collapses are far less common), infrastructure for basic utilities, and the list goes on.

Imagine how difficult it will be to share your none government approved sources of information when computers are either restricted to “essential uses” or simply become so expensive that no common American could afford one.


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[leVieux]

Our outboard engines would never fail. . . . . .

Then they were "computerized".

Lost their dependability.

I once had BOTH engine computers "go out" at the same time, boat no-go. Diagnosis said different reasons, not fuel related, just "engine computers". Good thing we were still at the dock and not 40 miles offshore.

Halfway on a 400 mile drive across Texas, the "chip" in my F-150 "went out", had to drive 150 miles in 3rd gear.

Sorry, but the older ones DIDN'T DO THAT !

 

[BeatTheTunaUp]

Halfway on a 400 mile drive across Texas, the "chip" in my F-150 "went out", had to drive 150 miles in 3rd gear.

Sorry, but the older ones DIDN'T DO THAT !

No the older cars only had 3 gears, so you were screaming 3k @ 70mph on a good day.

Your clothes also don't smell like unburnt fuel and exhaust anymore after driving thanks to chips.

You get better than 11mpg because of chips.

The list goes on. Point is, cars don't use points anymore for a reason. Hot rods and classics are cool, but are a pain in the ass to daily drive compared to modern vehicles.

 

[Younggun]

Our outboard engines would never fail. . . . . .

Then they were "computerized".

Lost their dependability.

I once had BOTH engine computers "go out" at the same time, boat no-go. Diagnosis said different reasons, not fuel related, just "engine computers". Good thing we were still at the dock and not 40 miles offshore.

Halfway on a 400 mile drive across Texas, the "chip" in my F-150 "went out", had to drive 150 miles in 3rd gear.

Sorry, but the older ones DIDN'T DO THAT !

1: You skipped everything to only talk about your personal vehicles

2: I’ve never been able to afford a modern outboard. The older style of outboard engines absolutely will fail on the water. Just for different reasons and a modern 4 stroke outboard is more reliable by far.

3: Transmissions still go out without chips. Hell, even manual transmissions fail.

4: Lots of cars and trucks still available that were built in the ‘70s and ‘80s with no chips. If they were better why are you not driving them? Much cheaper to purchase than modern and could easily spend some money on any maintenance needed and still come out ahead. But it sounds like you chose these terrible computerized new vehicles for some reason?


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[Younggun]

Taking the fight to the Russians





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[oldag]

I wonder if cars & trucks could be built without "chips" ?

Oh wait !

I remember having many cars & trucks without chips !

And how long would it take Detroit to redesign and re-tool? Years.

 

[dapakattack]

^ "I'm helping Ukraine. Putting my life on the line, by killing Russians....in a game...I mean simulation"

 

[Shady]

And how long would it take Detroit to redesign and re-tool? Years.

And all the equipment would have to be replaced with "chipless" stuff.

Good luck with that

Ya we need a 3000 Ton press err ummm can you make that with no computer controls and nothing that functions with a "chip"

 

[kbaxter60]

Interesting. I ducked in this morning, thinking this thread would be about Russia seeking military help from China and Ukraine bio-labs.
Instead, if is more like Mad Max in here...
Lots to think about, for sure.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…
We should have gone in hard and fast and hit every piece of commie equipment that crossed the border whether on tracks, wheels, wings, or strapped to a body. No boots on the ground, but total air superiority. And not one missile across the Russian border. …

With that ship having sailed, it’s much harder in the current ground environment for western forces to engage Russian targets….so much risk in target identification when both sides have the same shit.

During Allied Force, one of the newer NATO partners (may have been Poland) wanted to contribute to the efforts, so they started flying MiG-29s in a CAP on the north/northeast side of the battlespace. Special procedures were put in place of those guys ever left the CAP going inbound to 1)prevent a NATO fratricide and 2)make sure those MiGs were really NATO MiGs and not a ruse by former Yugoslav forces.

 

[Brains]

485hp, 23.2mpg average, 82mph average, ~1100 miles. I'll keep my chips.

 

[Younggun]

With that ship having sailed, it’s much harder in the current ground environment for western forces to engage Russian targets….so much risk in target identification when both sides have the same shit.

During Allied Force, one of the newer NATO partners (may have been Poland) wanted to contribute to the efforts, so they started flying MiG-29s in a CAP on the north/northeast side of the battlespace. Special procedures were put in place of those guys ever left the CAP going inbound to 1)prevent a NATO fratricide and 2)make sure those MiGs were really NATO MiGs and not a ruse by former Yugoslav forces.

I agree.

There’ve been friendly fire issues when Allie’s had completely different vehicles than the enemy. Doing what needs to be done would be far more difficult at this point, along with many other reasons.

Still, I feel it’s only going to be harder when we inevitably have to get involved in the future.


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[leVieux]

Interesting. I ducked in this morning, thinking this thread would be about Russia seeking military help from China and Ukraine bio-labs.
Instead, if is more like Mad Max in here...
Lots to think about, for sure.

Well, we oldsters tend to wander. . . . .

Don't worry, I can't get very far,

The Nurse will soon find me and send me back to my room.

 

[leVieux]

485hp, 23.2mpg average, 82mph average, ~1100 miles. I'll keep my chips.

Pray tell which magic carpet is this ?

 

[Younggun]

Sounds similar to the Challenger one of my employees drives.


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[oldag]

Pray tell which magic carpet is this ?

Camaro SS will do very close to that. 427 horses, standard.

 

[Darkpriest667]

With that ship having sailed, it’s much harder in the current ground environment for western forces to engage Russian targets….so much risk in target identification when both sides have the same shit.

During Allied Force, one of the newer NATO partners (may have been Poland) wanted to contribute to the efforts, so they started flying MiG-29s in a CAP on the north/northeast side of the battlespace. Special procedures were put in place of those guys ever left the CAP going inbound to 1)prevent a NATO fratricide and 2)make sure those MiGs were really NATO MiGs and not a ruse by former Yugoslav forces.

But you said it yourself chair force... Chair force rules... If we send in unmarked planes of just 2 interceptor wings we can probably change the entire course of the war. If the Russians don't have air superiority it's pretty well established they don't have jack shit. Why not just send 2 wings over there in unmarked planes and mop the Russian planes up?

 

[Brains]

Pray tell which magic carpet is this ?

Sounds similar to the Challenger one of my employees drives.

Close. 2019 Scat Pack Charger. My '16 SS Camaro would get right at 31mpg at 80, but I never averaged it over a long (>100mi) trip.

 

[toddnjoyce]

But you said it yourself chair force... Chair force rules... If we send in unmarked planes of just 2 interceptor wings we can probably change the entire course of the war. If the Russians don't have air superiority it's pretty well established they don't have jack shit. Why not just send 2 wings over there in unmarked planes and mop the Russian planes up?

That was then, this is now. Once log trains and forces disperse from the main ingress routes and mix with indigenous forces, the game changes from interdiction to close air support and that, my friend, is a much different proposition.

Instead of then shooting fish out of a barrel, it’s now shooting a needle in a haystack without harming the hay. Not impossible, but different conditions have to be met for that to occur.