Ukraine invasion

[jrbfishn]

The fact that someone approved of by the U.S. is not mediating negotiatins does not mean we are blocking them. Or that the U.S. does not approve of the terms. If either side wanted to negotiate at all, the other side would most likely be there. Why? Because if your enemy wants to negotiate, it usually means they are trying to metigate problems on their side. They are weak. And no matter how good a war is going for you now, that can change in short order from relatively few and minor mistakes.
Look at Germany in WWii. They were winning. Everywhere. And made a few decisions that proved to be disasterous. And lost big. Even if those decisions had been made at a different time, much of the world would be using German passports right now.
The fortunes of war can hinge on a single mistake.


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[A1Oni]

The fact that someone approved of by the U.S. is not mediating negotiatins does not mean we are blocking them. Or that the U.S. does not approve of the terms. If either side wanted to negotiate at all, the other side would most likely be there. Why? Because if your enemy wants to negotiate, it usually means they are trying to metigate problems on their side. They are weak. And no matter how good a war is going for you now, that can change in short order from relatively few and minor mistakes.
Look at Germany in WWii. They were winning. Everywhere. And made a few decisions that proved to be disasterous. And lost big. Even if those decisions had been made at a different time, much of the world would be using German passports right now.
The fortunes of war can hinge on a single mistake.


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I gotta stop you there, WW2 Germany might of covered a lot of land, but they were destined to lose, even if the US didnt enter the european theatere the German war machine would of crumpled under the immense lack of fuel and supplies.

 

[cycleguy2300]

It's obvious by your avatar whose side you're on. I'm American, and America comes first with me. At least you can point to one aspect where the Biden Administration got it right, I can't.

I don't think our taxes, taken by the threat of force, should go anywhere but back to my pocket or to the basic functions of our constitutional representative government.

However, the US sends billions of dollars to other nations and there is no stopping it at this point.

All that is left in my power is to voice to my representatives where to direct the money stream and Ukriane seems like one of the better options if not the best.



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[cycleguy2300]

my guy, it isn't, we literally astroturfed their current government in Ukraine.

Are you talking the 2014 coup or something else. I'm not sure what astroturfed means

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[A1Oni]

Are you talking the 2014 coup or something else. I'm not sure what astroturfed means

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yes, the 2014 Coup is what I am exactly talking about, and its the reason why Russia and Ukraine are in a shooting match whilst we get paid for the blood of young men dying for their own country without knowing that they are simply pawns in the wretched game that is geopolitics to keep the American hegemony at the top.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I gotta stop you there, WW2 Germany might of covered a lot of land, but they were destined to lose, even if the US didnt enter the european theatere the German war machine would of crumpled under the immense lack of fuel and supplies.

Their lack of fuel was a direct result of being engaged in N Africa without gaining naval superiority while at the same time opening a major front against the soviet union. Either operation could have secured fuel and the material issue wouldn't have been a problem, but trying both caused a lot of shipping losses and deprived both fronts of needed supplies and caused both to fail.

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[A1Oni]

Their lack of fuel was a direct result of being engaged in N Africa without gaining naval superiority while at the same time opening a major front against the soviet union. Either operation could have secured fuel and the material issue wouldn't have been a problem, but trying both caused a lot of shipping losses and deprived both fronts of needed supplies and caused both to fail.

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killing 8 zillion people in camps certainly didn't help either

 

[cycleguy2300]

yes, the 2014 Coup is what I am exactly talking about, and its the reason why Russia and Ukraine are in a shooting match whilst we get paid for the blood of young men dying for their own country without knowing that they are simply pawns in the wretched game that is geopolitics to keep the American hegemony at the top.

The pre-2014 govt was corrupt and aligned with russia. It was bad. I've had the chance e to talk to people who lived under both and universally they are glad for the coup. The police reformed, Government began reforms and they opened up to the west which helped their economy immensely.

There is a large memorial in лвіль to those who died to bring about the reforms. A good government doesn't treat their citizens like that.

Memorial of the Heavenly Company Heroes · Pidvalna St, 6, Lviv, Lviv Oblast, Ukraine, 79000

★★★★★ · Memorial park

maps.app.goo.gl

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[cycleguy2300]

killing 8 zillion people in camps certainly didn't help either

Not sure it really change the course of the war, but perhaps

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[A1Oni]

The pre-2014 govt was corrupt and aligned with russia. It was bad. I've had the chance e to talk to people who lived under both and universally they are glad for the coup. The police reformed, Government began reforms and they opened up to the west which helped their economy immensely.

There is a large memorial in лвіль to those who died to bring about the reforms. A good government doesn't treat their citizens like that.

Memorial of the Heavenly Company Heroes · Pidvalna St, 6, Lviv, Lviv Oblast, Ukraine, 79000

★★★★★ · Memorial park

maps.app.goo.gl

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the pre 2014 government was also legitimate as far as governments go, even then the new government certainly isn't any better than the old one.

 

[Havok1]

I don't twitter. That's your source, not mine. You are the one that thinks twitter users can better interpret a speaker than the speaker can.
And yeah, you did. Several times.


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lol. Another misinterpretation by you.

 

[leVieux]

I don't think our taxes, taken by the threat of force, should go anywhere but back to my pocket or to the basic functions of our constitutional representative government.

However, the US sends billions of dollars to other nations and there is no stopping it at this point.

All that is left in my power is to voice to my representatives where to direct the money stream and Ukriane seems like one of the better options if not the best.



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I understand & sympathize; but just watch Trump stop it dead !

Pray for GOD’S guidance and aid.

We surely don’t want another civil war here at home !

leVieux

.

 

[leVieux]

The pre-2014 govt was corrupt and aligned with russia. It was bad. I've had the chance e to talk to people who lived under both and universally they are glad for the coup. The police reformed, Government began reforms and they opened up to the west which helped their economy immensely.

There is a large memorial in лвіль to those who died to bring about the reforms. A good government doesn't treat their citizens like that.

Memorial of the Heavenly Company Heroes · Pidvalna St, 6, Lviv, Lviv Oblast, Ukraine, 79000

★★★★★ · Memorial park

maps.app.goo.gl

Sent from my SM-S918U1 using Tapatalk

<>

Thanks for the insights.

leVieux

<>

 

[cycleguy2300]

the pre 2014 government was also legitimate as far as governments go, even then the new government certainly isn't any better than the old one.

Well, I'd say it is more legitimate now.

Does the legitimacy of government not come from the consent of the governed? The governed were being oppressed and they rebooted and things ARE much better. EVERYONE I spoke to in Ukraine had praise for the post-2014 changes. Where are you getting your information?

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[Havok1]

I don't think there is much that is secret or not public regarding the causes or goals of the two parties. Is there so back door dealings? Sure, there always are, but I don't see where anyone blocked or prevented negotiations.

I still think Bennet is trying to save face. He would have been held in great esteem had he managed a deal of just about any sort between the two groups and I suspect he would rather blame an outside force rather and claim he had a 50/50 chance to work a deal than admit it was about 1000:1 that he could even get them to sit in the same room.

I cannot imagine any back door dealings that could have put pressure on either party to sit down. The USA was scared of russia and our weak foreign policy emboldened russia to make the attack in the first place (imo).

If we look at the problem as a "how do we get them to sit down together" how would we have done it? Make military aid conditional on having talked? Threaten russia with blowing up a pipeline or giving tanks and aircraft to Ukraine if they don't try? If the parties wanted to talk, their would be negotiators lining up to try their hand.

I think it would have taken SIGNIFICANT political pressure to get anyone to talk and don't think the absence of that pressure constitutes blocking the talks. I don't think talks should happen anymore than we should have negotiated a surrender with Germany or Japan. A war of conquest should not end with a negotiated peace with the aggressor, it should end with the aggressor so bled out so they can't threaten anyone else for generations.

My stance is and has been it was not (and still is not) reasonable to think an agreement of any sort was possible for Bennet or anyone else.

When two bros actually start slugging it out, you can't get them to stop right away and if one is antifa I'm going to try to hand the other guy some brass knuckles as opposed to holding him back from pounding the shit out of the guy who started it and is antifa.

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Maybe there isn’t much that’s a secret. It seems nobody here knew anything about bennetts interview until after I’d posted about it, so why would I believe that me, or anyone else knows all the details?

As far as the back room dealings, while I can’t say for sure, if I had to guess, Bennett knows who is signing his checks, and has leverage over him. There were mediators before him, and after him. He could have easily just said there was no chance of making a deal and nobody would think anything of it. But maybe that just wasn’t the truth.

As far as your last scenario, the equivalent would be giving the brass knuckles to blm because you don’t like antifa.

 

[Eastexasrick]

As far as your last scenario, the equivalent would be giving the brass knuckles to blm because you don’t like antifa.

equivocating the Ukrainian fighters with BLM? YOU ARE FUBAR

 

[leVieux]

Well, I'd say it is more legitimate now.

Does the legitimacy of government not come from the consent of the governed? The governed were being oppressed and they rebooted and things ARE much better. EVERYONE I spoke to in Ukraine had praise for the post-2014 changes. Where are you getting your information?

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Years back, during Obama era, Rudy G. & reporter Chanel Rion went to Kiev and did detailed interviews of the deposed governmental officials, including Porvshenko.

Just now on the TV “News” tonight, Putin is claiming that Ukraine reneged on their prior 2022 peace negotiations “under pressure from NATO”.

leVieux

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[cycleguy2300]

Maybe there isn’t much that’s a secret. It seems nobody here knew anything about bennetts interview until after I’d posted about it, so why would I believe that me, or anyone else knows all the details?

As far as the back room dealings, while I can’t say for sure, if I had to guess, Bennett knows who is signing his checks, and has leverage over him. There were mediators before him, and after him. He could have easily just said there was no chance of making a deal and nobody would think anything of it. But maybe that just wasn’t the truth.

As far as your last scenario, the equivalent would be giving the brass knuckles to blm because you don’t like antifa.

I'm pretty with you until the last paragraph...

Ukraine isn't perfect, but I'm not sure comparing them to blm is accurate... proudboys maybe given the assertions of right wing leanings...

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[jrbfishn]

Their lack of fuel was a direct result of being engaged in N Africa without gaining naval superiority while at the same time opening a major front against the soviet union. Either operation could have secured fuel and the material issue wouldn't have been a problem, but trying both caused a lot of shipping losses and deprived both fronts of needed supplies and caused both to fail.

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Hence just a few decisions sealed their fate. If they had conquered one front at a time instead of trying multiple,,,,, and them and Japan had left the U.S. alone until they conquered everyone else,,,,,history would have been much different.

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[jrbfishn]

lol. Another misinterpretation by you.

Is that your answer for everything when someone points out what you said?
Believe it or not, you are not the only one here that can comprehend the written word and understand what the words mean. Stop gaslighting. Despite how I may talk, I ain't that stupid.

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