So, when do we secede?

[TheDan]

This is why the federal gov is confident there will never be a critical mass of people to stand up to them. If it's too hard to give your employer a W4 every year, or be self employed, you're not mentally prepared for how hard actual secession would be.

 

[Rafe]

The only real way to NOT pay any federal tax, is to be unemployed or self employed. Any W2 employee is going to have some tax withheld, regardless of how many dependents you claim. They're going to get you thru FICA, social security, medicare, whatever - they're going to get their money. It would require employers to actually stop paying their quarterly taxes for shit to get real and most businesses aren't going to take the risk of bringing down the weight of the feds on them.

Even if you're self-employed, the only way you could try to get away without paying the IRS is to either not file a tax return, or to lie on it. The current self-employment tax rate is 15.3% across the board, 12.4% to social security and 2.9% for Medicare...even if you're already receiving SSA retirement benefits. If you have, say, just $1,000 in income from self-employment for a year, they still want their 15.3%.

 

[MountainGirl]

Even if you're self-employed, the only way you could try to get away without paying the IRS is to either not file a tax return, or to lie on it. The current self-employment tax rate is 15.3% across the board, 12.4% to social security and 2.9% for Medicare...even if you're already receiving SSA retirement benefits. If you have, say, just $1,000 in income from self-employment for a year, they still want their 15.3%.

That last part is not accurate. There is a threshold under which income from all sources, including SSA, is exempt. Current tax rates, using the IRS standard deduction, for married filing joint, that threshold is somewhere around 40k. I could drag out our (CPA prepared) returns for the specifics, but that's close enough to make my point.

 

[jmohme]

The only real way to NOT pay any federal tax, is to be unemployed or self employed. Any W2 employee is going to have some tax withheld, regardless of how many dependents you claim. They're going to get you thru FICA, social security, medicare, whatever - they're going to get their money. It would require employers to actually stop paying their quarterly taxes for shit to get real and most businesses aren't going to take the risk of bringing down the weight of the feds on them.

Wouldn't work with the current administration. The would just print the money to pay thier goons to go arrest and confiscate the assests of those the stopped paying.

 

[MountainGirl]

The only real way to NOT pay any federal tax, is to be unemployed or self employed... .

There is another way, but it takes years working and intentional planning... and it comes after retirement. We're not flush by any definition. But what we do have is: paid off homestead, no debt whatsoever, everything we need or want, and our monthly expenses are < 25% of our monthly SocSec. That leaves us plenty of scratch for the necessities of life... ammo, steaks, beer.

Staying under the IRS threshold can be done; we're doing it.

 

[kbaxter60]

The solution to not paying income tax is to have no taxable income.

My income was lost in a boating accident.

 

[Sasquatch]

My income was lost in a boating accident.

Your income was tied to the boat, which is at the bottom of Lake Tahoe. the IRS has to retrieve the boat from 1400 feet down, because you didn't have insurance.

 

[Rafe]

That's not accurate. There is a threshold under which income from all sources, including SSA, is exempt. Current tax rates, using the IRS standard deduction, for married filing joint, that threshold is somewhere around 40k. I could drag out our (CPA prepared) returns for the specifics, but that's close enough to make my point.

It wasn't about social security retirement benefits, it was about self-employment tax. Legitimate business expenses reduce the amount of self-employment tax owed, but unless the net figure is lower than $400 then--despite what other income you or do not have--you owe self-employment tax.

"Workers who are considered self-employed include sole proprietors, freelancers, and independent contractors who carry on a trade or business. Individuals who are self-employed and earn less than $400 a year (or less than $108.28 from a church) are exempt from paying the self-employment tax."

A few reference links:

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc554

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyment-tax-social-security-and-medicare-taxes

https://www.keepertax.com/posts/can...eduction-and-deduct-business-expenses#block-2

https://www.bench.co/blog/tax-tips/self-employment-tax

https://blog.turbotax.intuit.com/ta...elf-employment-tax-as-legally-necessary-3259/

(Edited to add, because I didn't know and had to look it up, the 2024 standard deduction for married filing jointly is $29,200.)

 

[MountainGirl]

It wasn't about social security retirement benefits, it was about self-employment tax. Legitimate business expenses reduce the amount of self-employment tax owed, but unless the net figure is lower than $400 then--despite what other income you or do not have--you owe self-employment tax.



A few reference links:

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc554

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyment-tax-social-security-and-medicare-taxes

https://www.keepertax.com/posts/can...eduction-and-deduct-business-expenses#block-2

https://www.bench.co/blog/tax-tips/self-employment-tax

https://blog.turbotax.intuit.com/ta...elf-employment-tax-as-legally-necessary-3259/

(Edited to add, because I didn't know and had to look it up, the 2024 standard deduction for married filing jointly is $29,200.)

Here's your post

Even if you're self-employed, the only way you could try to get away without paying the IRS is to either not file a tax return, or to lie on it. The current self-employment tax rate is 15.3% across the board, 12.4% to social security and 2.9% for Medicare...even if you're already receiving SSA retirement benefits. If you have, say, just $1,000 in income from self-employment for a year, they still want their 15.3%.

 

[Rafe]

Here's your post

Rafe said:
Even if you're self-employed, the only way you could try to get away without paying the IRS is to either not file a tax return, or to lie on it. The current self-employment tax rate is 15.3% across the board, 12.4% to social security and 2.9% for Medicare...even if you're already receiving SSA retirement benefits. If you have, say, just $1,000 in income from self-employment for a year, they still want their 15.3%.


Yep. Even if you are receiving social security retirement benefits, if you are self-employed, whether that be as a single-member LLC, a sole proprietor, or doing side-gig 1099 contractor work, you are still subject to self-employment tax. The SSA allowable personal income thresholds do not apply to self-employment tax.

 

[MountainGirl]

(Edited to add, because I didn't know and had to look it up, the 2024 standard deduction for married filing jointly is $29,200.)

Regarding that ^^^ using the SocSec worksheet, benefits received are reduced by 50% for tax calculation purposes... I checked our return; my 40k threshold guess was a little low.

 

[Razzamatazz]

But we still have property tax...we never own our property really.
Ag exemptions are nice, but we still pay...and with rentals, well you just pay a little more.
I hate this tax the most...it's like a bad dream that never goes away!

 

[MountainGirl]

Rafe said:
Even if you're self-employed, the only way you could try to get away without paying the IRS is to either not file a tax return, or to lie on it. The current self-employment tax rate is 15.3% across the board, 12.4% to social security and 2.9% for Medicare...even if you're already receiving SSA retirement benefits. If you have, say, just $1,000 in income from self-employment for a year, they still want their 15.3%.


Yep. Even if you are receiving social security retirement benefits, if you are self-employed, whether that be as a single-member LLC, a sole proprietor, or doing side-gig 1099 contractor work, you are still subject to self-employment tax. The SSA allowable personal income thresholds do not apply to self-employment tax.

You may or may not be right re different rules for income from self-employment, I hire the pros for that, lol. And if anyone needs a good CPA there's a member here who does a crackerjack job of it!

 

[MountainGirl]

But we still have property tax...we never own our property really.
Ag exemptions are nice, but we still pay...and with rentals, well you just pay a little more.
I hate this tax the most...it's like a bad dream that never goes away!

At least it's not going to the Feds.... which is actually the point of this thread.

 

[kbaxter60]

 

[Eastexasrick]

Trish Regan is hot. She speaks without all that goofy vocal fry and crackle voice that others seem to need to legitimize their narrative, and did I mention she is hot.

 

[kbaxter60]

Trish Regan is hot.

Well, yeah, I thought that much was obvious.

 

[Eastexasrick]

Well, yeah, I thought that much was obvious.

Only to the casual observer

 

[Cool 'Horn Luke]

She needs to stand up!

 

[Eastexasrick]

She needs to stand up!

That will make your sticker peck out.