Most comfortable way to carry at Church? Help

[CaliGunner]

Well, it's a perfect way for that one elder or deacon who's a hoplophobe to get the church posted 30.06 for one thing.

Good point. I don't think we can ever assume that people are comfortable knowing that you're packing a firearm, regardless of the Church's value system. I know more than a couple of "conservatives" who look at people carrying guns on their person everyday with leery eyes.

 

[zackmars]

Well, it's a perfect way for that one elder or deacon who's a hoplophobe to get the church posted 30.06 for one thing.

I'm going to venture a guess and say that a church with 30.06 signs isn't a church with an armed security team. Much less an armed security team full of hoplophobes

 

[Sasquatch]

might be a good idea to let member of your churches security team (if it exits) know you carry.

Hard pass. Unless I'm friends with that person, zero reason to let them know, lots of good reasons not to. In the heat of things, if shots are being fired - the attention will be on the first person popping rounds off. Unless you attend an Osteen size mega church, chances are people will know you anyway.

Even if you make the ultimate sacrifice by friendly fire - if the threat is stopped and lots of innocents are saved in the process, the outcome could be worse. Not saying that's what I'd be hoping / planning for, but it is always a potential.

Worst case - security team members freak out and shoot you even if they know you. Or responding LE does. Who knows.

But then again ......

View attachment 345214

Some of us don't need the help...

I'm not saying they are going to gun people down for printing, thats not what i am talking about.

If an active shooter happens, and guns come out, I'd be ok with the security team knowing I'm not the bad guy.

Because lets be real, lots of church security teams aren't well organized or trained. I don't want the guy off to the side to dome me because i stopped a threat, because all he could see is me shooting.

Its a possibility, but its also a possibility the team members are of the "its ok for ME to carry, but not for the general public" and thus they bend the pastor / director to post up no-carry signs. I'd rather take my chances if things break bad, than to speak up and wind up screwing myself and others by getting the place posted. The fewer people who know I am armed in a given situation, with some exceptions, the better.

 

[Sasquatch]

I'm going to venture a guess and say that a church with 30.06 signs isn't a church with an armed security team. Much less an armed security team full of hoplophobes

They might - the team might be comprised of "trusted" people - LE members or licensed security guards. Lots of anti-gunners surround themselves with armed security.

Those churches that post 30.06 probably teach pacifist Jesus though - and not table flipping, "sell your cloak to buy a sword" Jesus.

 

[zackmars]

Not a bad reason per se, but I don’t think that’s also a reason to blanket disclose. Every situation is unique.

Of course. I'm not saying to go run into a mega-church and yell out you have an LTC and are armed.

But a smaller church you know lots of people from? Telling a few people you are armed? Thats just a little less risk you might have to deal with

 

[CaliGunner]

I'm going to venture a guess and say that a church with 30.06 signs isn't a church with an armed security team. Much less an armed security team full of hoplophobes

I wouldn't assume that at all. I've been to numerous places with 30.06 signs that have armed security roaming the place. For instance the big asian grocery store in North Austin (I think... H-Mart).

They have 30.06 signs on both doors, but the security guard is carrying a Glock 19. I've actually exchanged greetings with him as I enter the store.

 

[zackmars]

I wouldn't assume that at all. I've been to numerous places with 30.06 signs that have armed security roaming the place. For instance the big asian grocery store in North Austin (I think... H-Mart).

They have 30.06 signs on both doors, but the security guard is carrying a Glock 19. I've actually exchanged greetings with him as I enter the store.

The only places I've ever been in that had 30.06 signs and armed security are courthouses, airports, and larger hospitals.

A big city is probably going to be a lot different than more rural areas, but I've seen 30.06 with no armed security even in Houston a lot

 

[CaliGunner]

The only places I've ever been in that had 30.06 signs and armed security are courthouses, airports, and larger hospitals.

A big city is probably going to be a lot different than more rural areas, but I've seen 30.06 with no armed security even in Houston a lot

Maybe, it's something I've observed at grocery stores, business park buildings, high rises in downtown (Texas Bank basically 30.06'd an entire high rise while having armed security at the front desk), credit unions, even some gas station convenience stores. Now I won't say it's really common, but I never assume.

I would say at the end of the day, I personally would never out myself as being armed to people who don't need to know, but if you do go ahead and do it, I'd make very sure the people you talk to are pro-2A (like anyone in Church leadership). It just takes one to make things awkward for you, and then you end up having to go to a different church.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I wouldn't assume that at all. I've been to numerous places with 30.06 signs that have armed security roaming the place. For instance the big asian grocery store in North Austin (I think... H-Mart).

They have 30.06 signs on both doors, but the security guard is carrying a Glock 19. I've actually exchanged greetings with him as I enter the store.

Are you implying 30.05/.05/.07 signs apply to armed security guards while on duty?

 

[Sasquatch]

Are you implying 30.05/.05/.07 signs apply to armed security guards while on duty?

That's how I read his comment. Maybe he's not aware that those signs don't apply to security working for the establishment that posts them? Its a reasonable step for places that post, to actually hire armed security.

I found myself at a credit union in Houston not long ago, just a local branch not a headquarters. Building is posted with all three, and they had an armed security person in the lobby between the bankers, the vault entrance, and the teller counter.

 

[General Zod]

I'm going to venture a guess and say that a church with 30.06 signs isn't a church with an armed security team. Much less an armed security team full of hoplophobes

Venturing guesses like that is a good way to be disappointed a lot. A 30.06 signs means YOU can't carry. Not that people who are considered to be "working there" can't be.

I've been a member of a large urban (well, Plano) church. 3000 members. There was no reason at all to let anyone there know I was carrying concealed when I attended.

I've also been a member of a small rural church, with around 200 members, at least 150 of whom are related to me in some way. There was no reason at all to let anyone there know I was carrying concealed when I attended.

If you're that worried about it, then fine, go volunteer to join the "security team" - but don't be surprised if you're asked not to bring your firearm to church if they decide your services aren't needed. As Caligunner said, you'd be surprised how many 'conservatives' aren't ok with others carrying firearms around them. Or how many people who otherwise might be okay with it who might still be offended that you would enter a "house of God" armed.

Your fear of being mistaken for a bad actor if something should happen is the reason products like these are on the market:

 

[CaliGunner]

No I'm simply saying just because a place has a a 30.06 sign, it doesn't mean they won't have armed security. In fact, I've been to numerous businesses that try to ban conceal carry, but have their own armed security in place.

Venturing guesses like that is a good way to be disappointed a lot. A 30.06 signs means YOU can't carry. Not that people who are considered to be "working there" can't be.

I've been a member of a large urban (well, Plano) church. 3000 members. There was no reason at all to let anyone there know I was carrying concealed when I attended.

I've also been a member of a small rural church, with around 200 members, at least 150 of whom are related to me in some way. There was no reason at all to let anyone there know I was carrying concealed when I attended.

If you're that worried about it, then fine, go volunteer to join the "security team" - but don't be surprised if you're asked not to bring your firearm to church if they decide your services aren't needed. As Caligunner said, you'd be surprised how many 'conservatives' aren't ok with others carrying firearms around them. Or how many people who otherwise might be okay with it who might still be offended that you would enter a "house of God" armed.

Your fear of being mistaken for a bad actor if something should happen is the reason products like these are on the market:

Man, I'm actually genuinely shocked that someone thought a CCW "sash" was a good idea. Wow.

As for conservatives and conceal carrying, I know conservatives personally who say "I believe in 2A, but..." all the time. A lot of people can be conservative in some ways (like abortion, taxes, religion, etc), but may be fairly communist when it comes to guns, especially if they "look" scary.

 

[zackmars]

Venturing guesses like that is a good way to be disappointed a lot. A 30.06 signs means YOU can't carry. Not that people who are considered to be "working there" can't be.

I've been a member of a large urban (well, Plano) church. 3000 members. There was no reason at all to let anyone there know I was carrying concealed when I attended.

I've also been a member of a small rural church, with around 200 members, at least 150 of whom are related to me in some way. There was no reason at all to let anyone there know I was carrying concealed when I attended.

If you're that worried about it, then fine, go volunteer to join the "security team" - but don't be surprised if you're asked not to bring your firearm to church if they decide your services aren't needed. As Caligunner said, you'd be surprised how many 'conservatives' aren't ok with others carrying firearms around them. Or how many people who otherwise might be okay with it who might still be offended that you would enter a "house of God" armed.

Your fear of being mistaken for a bad actor if something should happen is the reason products like these are on the market:

I am fully aware of what 30.06 means.

You are missing the point i am trying to make.

 

[General Zod]

I am fully aware of what 30.06 means.

You are missing the point i am trying to make.

Nope. I'm not. You're scared if you draw your pistol in self defense, you'll be misidentified as the aggressor and shot. You'd also happily identify yourself as a concealed carrier to folks who very well may not want you carrying since you're not "one of the team", which may earn you verbal notice that you are not to carry concealed on the premises or cause them to put up 30.06 signage.

Bottom line: Concealed means concealed. Don't volunteer the info - not only could you be asked not to carry there anymore, you may even be viewed as a threat from that point onward. You're expecting other people to react the way you would - that never tends to work out well. They don't need to know.

We're also pretty far afield from what the OP was actually asking.

 

[zackmars]

Nope. I'm not. You're scared if you draw your pistol in self defense, you'll be misidentified as the aggressor and shot. You'd also happily identify yourself as a concealed carrier to folks who very well may not want you carrying since you're not "one of the team", which may earn you verbal notice that you are not to carry concealed on the premises or cause them to put up 30.06 signage.

Bottom line: Concealed means concealed. Don't volunteer the info - not only could you be asked not to carry there anymore, you may even be viewed as a threat from that point onward. You're expecting other people to react the way you would - that never tends to work out well. They don't need to know.

We're also pretty far afield from what the OP was actually asking.

Jesus you read into things, don't you?

Am i scared? Nope.

Would i identify myself as a concealed carrier to people? No. I don't go to church, but i can see the value of a security team of undetermined quality knowing not to shoot me, having seen several teams "qualify".

If one guy saying they carry causes them to put up legal notices, bad news, they were going to do that no matter what.

If a CHURCH views you as a threat after saying you carry, get a new church, seriously.


Calm down dude.

 

[General Zod]

Jesus you read into things, don't you?

Am i scared? Nope.

Would i identify myself as a concealed carrier to people? No. I don't go to church, but i can see the value of a security team of undetermined quality knowing not to shoot me, having seen several teams "qualify".

If one guy saying they carry causes them to put up legal notices, bad news, they were going to do that no matter what.

If a CHURCH views you as a threat after saying you carry, get a new church, seriously.


Calm down dude.

First of all, my name's not Jesus.

"Calm down dude" - that's how you can tell someone with a weak argument (or a series of them) feels that he's looking foolish.

Look, if you don't even go to church, why are you bothering to comment here? Why, for that matter, did you feel some need to weigh in and defend a poor piece of advice given by some other "dude" who isn't even you? It was addressed by several of us, and yet you still felt the need to weigh in and argue on that guy's behalf. This says a lot about you.

 

[zackmars]

First of all, my name's not Jesus.

"Calm down dude" - that's how you can tell someone with a weak argument (or a series of them) feels that he's looking foolish.

Look, if you don't even go to church, why are you bothering to comment here? Why, for that matter, did you feel some need to weigh in and defend a poor piece of advice given by some other "dude" who isn't even you? It was addressed by several of us, and yet you still felt the need to weigh in and argue on that guy's behalf. This says a lot about you.

I guess calm down hit close to home?

It's an open forum, and anyone can reply. Last time i checked that wasn't against the rules.

I saw a reasoning behind it, and explained my position, unlike you who simply typed

...and a thousand reasons not to.

Sorry i participated in an open topic in an open forum. I'll go now

 

[General Zod]

I guess calm down hit close to home?

It's an open forum, and anyone can reply. Last time i checked that wasn't against the rules.

I saw a reasoning behind it, and explained my position, unlike you who simply typed

Sorry i participated in an open topic in an open forum. I'll go now

Nope. I said what I meant - assigning your anger to me and then telling me to "calm down" is a dead giveaway that you can't stand being disagreed with. Projection is a poor debate tactic.

And by the way, if all I had typed was that first response, you wouldn't have anyone to be all pissy with as you take your ball and go home. I explained my position quite thoroughly - you must have noticed, as you kept replying with increasingly condescending replies. You're right, it's an open topic - but you still felt the need to wade in and defend an idea that was already discredited, and now your feelings are hurt because you did. That's on you, not me.

 

[zackmars]

Nope. I said what I meant - assigning your anger to me and then telling me to "calm down" is a dead giveaway that you can't stand being disagreed with. Projection is a poor debate tactic.

And by the way, if all I had typed was that first response, you wouldn't have anyone to be all pissy with as you take your ball and go home. I explained my position quite thoroughly - you must have noticed, as you kept replying with increasingly condescending replies. You're right, it's an open topic - but you still felt the need to wade in and defend an idea that was already discredited, and now your feelings are hurt because you did. That's on you, not me.

Because I'm not the one arguing with people over what they should, and shouldn't reply to.

And yes, that is all you typed in that reply. Is it your only reply? No, but you dismissed it by only typing that.

And yes, i am taking my ball and going home, because i really don't have the inclination to argue with you over something as trivial as this. There are better uses of my time, like playing with cat turds.

 

[General Zod]

Because I'm not the one arguing with people over what they should, and shouldn't reply to.

And yes, that is all you typed in that reply. Is it your only reply? No, but you dismissed it by only typing that.

And yes, i am taking my ball and going home, because i really don't have the inclination to argue with you over something as trivial as this.

ROFL

And yet here you are, doing exactly that. Wow. I actually did laugh out loud reading that.