I have mixed feelings on this....

[Miami_JBT]

Q: do you have a google alert set for your username?

I’ve seen more than a few people on a couple of boards use that technique for a variety of reasons.

Yes, since I'm constantly in the news all over the country.

 

[V-Tach]

This thread just took an unexpected turn............lol.......

 

[Southpaw]

.
Who puts an address, or apartment number at knee height?

This is at knee height?

 

[S13]

This is at knee height?

There is a subtitle earlier in the vid people are thinking is an actual sign on a wall.

 

[TheDan]

 

[benenglish]

Yes, since I'm constantly in the news all over the country.

Thread derailments are a time-honored tradition here. Normally, though, they arise organically. They don't arise from pre-written essays held at the ready when a Google alert shows up in the posters newsfeed/alerts/email/whatever. Based on what you've posted within your first 24 hours on TGT, we now have sufficient fodder for this thread to go many different directions.

Generally speaking, if a GOA rep wants to dump great walls of text into Texas Gun Talk, the polite thing to do would be to post in the place set aside for the GOA.

You might try that if you really want to reach out to our membership. If, OTOH, you just wanted to drop in, defend yourself, and educate us about the gun laws in Florida, well, you've done that. So if you feel your account no longer serves any purpose to you, let me know; I can help with that.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you'll stick around to shoot the breeze, talk guns and lots of other stuff, and generally kick around in here. We're a little different from most gun forums...but it takes more than a day to figure that out for yourself.

 

[V-Tach]

 

[Johnny Diamond]

Well then everything's good now right?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[cycleguy2300]

So a person does not have 2A rights in his on home?

Of course they do, but him answering the door (pressuming the knocked and announced) with a firearm in hand puts the officers in immediate risk of serious bodily injury or death and deadly force is 100% justified. Shitty? Yeah, but this is FAR from the first time this sort of thing has happened and it wont be the last...

The deputy announced LOUDLY immediately before the guy opened the door. I dont know what he expected.

A similar call happened here a few months ago here in Austin.



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[Maverick44]

Of course they do, but him answering the door (pressuming the knocked and announced) with a firearm in hand puts the officers in immediate risk of serious bodily injury or death and deadly force is 100% justified.

Based on what that deputy's own department said, that's not correct. To quote them "the objective facts do not support the use of deadly force as an appropriate response".

Him simply being in possession of a firearm is not justification for deadly force when he has not acted aggressively in any way, shape, or form. I do not know how you can sit there and try to justify this officer's actions when they are so blatantly and unforgivably wrong. His own department says he's wrong. That speaks volumes.

If an officer cannot do better than that, then they should find another job.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Based on what that deputy's own department said, that's not correct. To quote them "the objective facts do not support the use of deadly force as an appropriate response".

Him simply being in possession of a firearm is not justification for deadly force when he has not acted aggressively in any way, shape, or form. I do not know how you can sit there and try to justify this officer's actions when they are so blatantly and unforgivably wrong. His own department says he's wrong. That speaks volumes.

If an officer cannot do better than that, then they should find another job.

In Texas law and case law justify the deputy's actions.

What would you have the officer do?

Wait and hope the guy doesn't shoot him?
Courts repeatedly have said that is not reasonable.

Hoping the guy who answered the door with a gun doesn't take me from my wife and kids is not a realistic option.

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[Maverick44]

In Texas law and case law justify the deputy's actions.

Then the law and case law is wrong and needs to be changed. To say that this was right is morally wrong.

What would you have the officer do?

Not shoot immediately when there is no cause to.

Wait and hope the guy doesn't shoot him?
Courts repeatedly have said that is not reasonable.

The guy never once did anything aggressive. Not a single thing. You do not get a free pass on killing someone just because they have a weapon in their hand.

Hoping the guy who answered the door with a gun doesn't take me from my wife and kids is not a realistic option.

If you're that jumpy that the mere sight a firearm will cause you to open fire, you don't need to be a cop. He did nothing aggressive. He just opened the door with a gun in his hand resting at his side, the same way that many of this forum have done before. That alone is not justification to kill. His department agrees with that view. He was wrong, and if there is any justice to be had, he'll spend many years in prison by the time everything is said and done.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Then the law and case law is wrong and needs to be changed. To say that this was right is morally wrong.



Not shoot immediately when there is no cause to.



The guy never once did anything aggressive. Not a single thing. You do not get a free pass on killing someone just because they have a weapon in their hand.



If you're that jumpy that the mere sight a firearm will cause you to open fire, you don't need to be a cop. He did nothing aggressive. He just opened the door with a gun in his hand resting at his side, the same way that many of this forum have done before. That alone is not justification to kill. His department agrees with that view. He was wrong, and if there is any justice to be had, he'll spend many years in prison by the time everything is said and done.

Unless there is something we dont know, I will say the officer was 100% in the right and I could have done the same thing in his shoes.

If you are going to have someone else go knock on doors when people are fighting this is the cost.

Opening the door with a gun in hand IS AGRESSIVE!

Lets change the circumstances a little bit. Lets say this dude, instead of opening his own door, opened the door to your office, or the gas station you are grabbing a coke in. yeah, lets wait to see if he shoots me... nope not waiting. He opened the door to an deputy's office and should have known who he was opening the door to.

Changing the law because of one person's poor decision to open a door with a gun in hand is short sighted to say the least...

If you carry, you may need to evaluate your mindset because the hesitation you are encouraging will get you or the ones you care about hurt or killed.

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[V-Tach]

My Son is a cop, and I still think it was an over reaction from the Deputy. Read/Listen to the his own departments reasoning for his dismissal. He didn't even have a legitimate reason to knock on his door to begin with.

We'll see if a grand jury indicts him.....or not.............or if the DA even brings it to a Grand Jury, which they may not....

 

[toddnjoyce]

…He didn't even have a legitimate reason to knock on his door to begin with.....

That is incorrect. The deputy was responding to a 911 call at that address/apt#.

The deputy was fired because he lied about his actions at the door to the OIS team and the lies he told demonstrated he knowingly and willfully violated departmental policies as a matter of practice.

 

[MountainGirl]

And then there's this.
This week, in Jasper. Mayor's cousin.
Two other articles also, including Mayor's statement, at kjas.com / local news.


Body cam vid of shooting.

Jasper Police release body-cam video of officer involved shooting

On Tuesday evening, Jasper Police released body-cam video of an officer involved shooting. It occurred at about 5:00 Tuesday morning in the 100 block of Parker Drive in southeast Jasper.

www.kjas.com

One of the articles tells an interesting story, the dead suspect survived a similar incident - not LE involved - years ago; I'd imagine he had a flashback before he made his choice.

Also, listening to the vid, there was plenty of LE identifying yelling just inside the front door, but hard to know what the dead guy heard in the back of the house behind the closed bdr door. I just watched it again, hoping to hear them yell to him through that door before breech; they didn't. Maybe he knew they were cops maybe he didn't. Either way, ya reap what you sow I guess.

 

[Havok1]

Unless there is something we dont know, I will say the officer was 100% in the right and I could have done the same thing in his shoes.

If you are going to have someone else go knock on doors when people are fighting this is the cost.

Opening the door with a gun in hand IS AGRESSIVE!

Lets change the circumstances a little bit. Lets say this dude, instead of opening his own door, opened the door to your office, or the gas station you are grabbing a coke in. yeah, lets wait to see if he shoots me... nope not waiting. He opened the door to an deputy's office and should have known who he was opening the door to.

Changing the law because of one person's poor decision to open a door with a gun in hand is short sighted to say the least...

If you carry, you may need to evaluate your mindset because the hesitation you are encouraging will get you or the ones you care about hurt or killed.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Him holding a gun inside his own apartment is very different than going to another establishment brandishing a firearm. Did you watch the whole body cam video, from when he exited his vehicle all the way through the shooting?

 

[Renegade]

In Texas law and case law justify the deputy's actions.

While opening door with gun in hand is stupid, it is not illegal and does not constitute use of deadly force.

Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

Since there was no use of deadly force, shooter does not get (A) exemption.

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force;

What would you have the officer do?

1) Talk to the actual complainant, and not 3rd party who was witness to nothing. It was like a game of telephone.

2) Stand outside door a few minutes listening and see if he gets any probable cause or at least reasonable suspicion a crime is in progress.

3) Also, absent a warrant, the order to open the door was unlawful and unconstitutional.

 

[Whistler]

Can't seem to open that one, oh well.

My two cents based on a tiny bit of video is simply answering the door gun in hand, in your residence, is no justification to shoot anyone. Especially considering one gun is pointing at the floor and the other at the man's face.

Not saying it's not scary to be a cop but I am saying he signed up for the gig knowing full well he might be in such a situation and that he'd have to be around dangerous situations without killing innocent people.

Mistakes happen, adrenaline makes people over-react but it doesn't change the fact he had no cause to shoot. The LEO had the advantage and could have easily shot the man if he tried to raise his gun.

I get the fear, I wouldn't even consider doing that job but he CHOSE to, subsequently he was granted authority over others and the expectation he would be held to the higher standard that accompanies that authority and privilege. His actions were wrong though I do feel his training may have let him down if some assertions in this thread are accurate.

From now on I wouldn't open the door to police because I may answer the door armed and I don't want to be shot for nothing then have other cops defend it. My two cents...

Hypothetically of course, I have gates and cameras and other security that prevents people from approaching my door without my knowledge.

 

[A1Oni]

I think the cop should get the death penalty for murdering this innocent man.