Knockdown power or sometimes referred to as Killing Power, here is the formula.
E x SD x A = KPS
Energy (in foot pounds) x Sectional Density (taken from reloading manuals) x cross-sectional Area (in square inches) = Killing Power or Knockdown power call it whatever you chose.
If you are not happy with that then apply the formula for Kinetic Energy: kinetic energy (KE) is equal to half of an object's mass (1/2*m) multiplied by the velocity squared. For example, if a an object with a mass of 10 kg (m = 10 kg) is moving at a velocity of 5 meters per second (v = 5 m/s), the kinetic energy is equal to 125 Joules, or (1/2 * 10 kg) * 5 m/s2
Its just physics no more, no less, but what it does is provide an index(s) on which you can make some probable outcomes.
No, Deer don't shot back or wear armor, nor did I say they did. However the size of an average Whitetail Texas summer deer is about 150 lbs, their body size is about that of a full-grown man and like men they have organs, muscle and bone so the similarity if about equal and faer more accurate in testing than a gel block that contains no bones and has a uniform density vs muscle and organs.
Weight*: While a consideration, the Army has not figured out how to have a major impact on load-bearing combat weight. Of the 3 studies I am familiar with, Vietnam, Ft Lewis* and ME wars the COMBAT load has varied less than +/- 5 lbs from 147 lbs. The TO&E, on the other hand, varies a lot. Winter Vs Summer could swing from a low of 82 lbs to a high of 106 lbs, but that is NOT COMBAT loading that is just TO&E but does include your basic weapon and No Ammo.
* Weight between a AR10 vs AR15 dressed out same-same for Infantry or civilian is about 2 lbs in fact about 1.8 +/- oz's.
As for the frame, if you use the Win Short Mag .243 you get the same length as the 5.56, but it gains in the girth by being a fatter round. That will cost 5 rds or in a 30 rd mag 25 vs 30.
Yes, the Army is on a tear to get the weight down and seeing as that have not been very successful since WWII I don't see any magic on the horizon. Of course, this is being driven by the integration of women into the Infantry.
*Ft Lewis Study: one of the things looked at was the optimal carry weight. Sadly that did not give the Army and answer it wanted to hear so it was not disseminated. However, their office was the same building and down the hall...20% of body weight was considered the optimal load-bearing carry. To make it worse an Infantry soldier around 5'10" - 6' 2" and weighing about 175-200 lbs will lose approx 35-50 lbs in the combat role.
ANYHOW...point is there are a lot of superior rds to the 5.56 and I am more than a bit concerned since the Army has stated it is going to design its own rd...telling us that of all the COTS rds out there nothing is suitable...I find that hard to believe!
The .243 WSM is a barrel burner. Even on a basic infantry weapon you're talking about swapping barrels quite often. In a combat situation you would need to issue barrels. That means the weapon needs to have a user swappable barrel. That's going to increase complexity, weight and cost.
Taking a look into the not so distant past, the second battle of Fallujah, some of those Marines would have needed to swap barrels at least once a day, if not twice.
Base diameter of the .243 WSM is almost half again that of the .223, I think your estimates of magazine capacity loss are a bit off.
What exactly is it that burns out the barrel, I hear this term from time to time and am wondering what causes it?The .243 WSM is a barrel burner. Even on a basic infantry weapon you're talking about swapping barrels quite often. In a combat situation you would need to issue barrels. That means the weapon needs to have a user swappable barrel. That's going to increase complexity, weight and cost.
Taking a look into the not so distant past, the second battle of Fallujah, some of those Marines would have needed to swap barrels at least once a day, if not twice.
Base diameter of the .243 WSM is almost half again that of the .223, I think your estimates of magazine capacity loss are a bit off.
What exactly is it that burns out the barrel, I hear this term from time to time and am wondering what causes it?
This exactlyBig case, small bullet.
Lots of pressure, gasses, and heat. This causes erosion at the throat, and particularly to gas operated guns, gas port erosion
Few here may be missing the point of the discussion. As we speak the Army is moving to a new caliber, the 5.56 is leaving the building. While they have not made a decision yet, they intend to sooner rather than later.
My number 1 point and were I on the board I would ask the question: Is there nothing that is out there now that cannot do the job we want, I just have a hard time with reinventing the wheel...that IMO should be our last choice. Because we drive the train and coming up with an all-new round will affect all services and NATO.
Functionality is key and right now emerging tactics are driving the train and forcing us into a new round. Tactics are calling for soldiers engaging out to 800m. I am just not sure that is doable at the individual soldier level, that is a high bar. Anyhow another discussion on tactics!
Then again, we're talking government, and I used to work for the DoD.Do you know how many programs and billions of dollars have gone into replacing 5.56 and the ar15? SALVO, SPIW, G11, ACR, OICW, XM8, and a few humdred tests of the M16/M4 of varying degrees of legitimacy sprinkled in... And this has been going on since the 5.56 was adopted.
Don't hold your breath. While 5.56 isnt infallible and there is a chance it may get replaced, its far more likely that everyone once again realizes that its just a waste of money and the current system does 99% of the job at 1/10th the price.
Well, yeah. Maybe part of that is that I'm not an arms distributor/manufacturer/etc. Nor am I a federal contractor.Well yeah, but we're reasonable, at least reasonable enough to know this
Last time i saw the military presentations on ballistic overmatch, it was all "zOMG REAR ECHELON PEOPLE CANT GO TOE TO TOE WITH CONCEALED GPMG'S!!1! WE NEED AR10'S!"
Overmatch could be a valid study if you are looking to compare say, m110 sass and csass to psl's and dragunovs, but they are comparing the m4 to the psl and dragunovs
Not to mention that the 6.5CM burns up barrels pretty quickly. Mentally, I position it more into the "magnum" realm for that reason alone. The everyday warfighter does not need a magnum round. I'd much rather see them using the 6.8SPC (where you can use the legacy M16 platform), than the 6.5CM (where you have to use an AR10 platform).There is no such thing as knockdown power
It's just something that gun store clerks make up to try to push things on uninformed customers.
As it turns out, rounds that perform well in ballistics gel tend to do well on the street, and it allows you to see the true performance of a round without an outside factor ruining the experiment.
Once again, people are not deer. Deer do not shoot back. Deer do not wear armor, deer aren't trying to fix and maneuver on you. Deer don't go around taking dozens of "kill shots" from .308 amd continue to function
The ".22 bullet" as you so simply put it is pushing near 3000 fps while still maintaining good barrel life, low recoil, and capacity. Yes .243 and 6.5 exist, but have you held even an AR10 carbine? Shits heavy, even without an optic, magazine, peq, etc. Magazine footprint is much larger, a carrier that can hold 4 AR15 mags on a single stack shingle can only hold 2 ar10 mags in the same space
I get where you're coming from, but unfortunately its a mix of gun store hyperbole, and outdated nonsense that has killed numerous potentially great service rifles, and given us rifles that are only useful on a known distance range.
I too have been led to believe that...in fact, I DO believe that the laws of physics still apply and on every ballistic table I have ever worked with there is a column labeled "Energy" which is shown at various distances. But I came to learn that its just gun shop talk and Energy is not measurable...My thoughts. And I'm sure I will get corrected if needed. If a bullet has xxx ft lbs of energy(plain physics) and hits an object but does not exit then the object absorbs all xxx ft lbs of energy. I'm not discussing damage or anything else but say 1000ft lbs of energy is absorbed in a body something is going to get hurt.
I hope not! On the killing fields, we move on foot otherwise you just die tired. When I was on the DMZ In Korea back in the 70's with 1/9th Inf (MANCHU) every Sat we rucked up and when cross country 15 mi in 3 hrs, if you could not make it you did remedial PT until you did.We are a highly mobilized military now
The days of 20 mile marches are long gone.
The troops can carry more load because they are covering long distances as a rule
All those do is get you to the Forward Edge of the Battlefield, then you unass and go fight.Your 50 year old memories, which I respect and I know you are fond of, do not reflect the modern military.
We have spent a lot of money on APCs and Infantry Fighting Vehicles so we can put troops quickly where they need to be without marching them into battle like during the Civil War