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Combat Rifle Rd

Discussion in 'General Firearms & Ammo' started by Ole Cowboy, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. smittyb

    smittyb Well-Known

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    There are a shit load of better choices.
    6.5 Grendel, 25-45, 6x45, 277 Wolverine just for starters.

    Now the best round, that is a debate that will not be settled on this forum, or any forum.
     


  2. zackmars

    zackmars Active Member

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    There is no such thing as knockdown power, killing power, whatever you want to call it.

    It is not scientific, it is not measurable

    It is, plain and simple, gun store BS.

    Always has been, always will be.

    The fact that no ballistics lab, or ballistician uses the term or your formula is a clue.


    Caliber is not everything. You seem to really want something like .243wsm, yet you have failed to recognize the biggest issue is that it is not suitable for a select fire rifle. And as far as 6.5cm, it may be a suitable replacement for DMR's and LMG's, but the size and weight penalty going from 5.56 is huge.

    Sure you may loose only 5 rounds a mag, but now either the stamdard AR platform takes a significant hit to durability and parts life (particularly barrels) or you waste time and money developing a complete replacement for the AR FOW, that despite its age, is still far superior to other competing options.

    Lets say you adopt your preferred barrel burner, will the avg. Soldier/Marine be able, in a combat environment, be able to take advantage of the extra long range performance of the .243wsm?

    Is that extra tiny edge worth the increased recoil, the decreased capacity, the increased weight and enormous cost of the new caliber? Because for each little thing a great shooter can take advantage of, an average to poor shooter will be hindered by
     
    Charlie likes this.
  3. zackmars

    zackmars Active Member

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    People think quick swapping barrels, like the AUG has are cool, but you could easily cut off a pound off that gun if you got rid of that system. I was really interested in the F88 from Lithgow which did just that.

    Unfortunately that guns DOA
     
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  4. Ole Cowboy

    Ole Cowboy TGT Addict

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    What exactly is it that burns out the barrel, I hear this term from time to time and am wondering what causes it?
     
  5. zackmars

    zackmars Active Member

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    Big case, small bullet.

    Lots of pressure, gasses, and heat. This causes erosion at the throat, and particularly to gas operated guns, gas port erosion

    If you take a .308, which has a pretty respectable barrel life, and neck it down to a .243 win, barrel life suffers.

    In a bolt action rifle, it's not that noticeable, as it's not being shot a whole lot, and the action is inherently "slow", but when the gun has a much higher practical rate of fire...
     
    Charlie likes this.
  6. smittyb

    smittyb Well-Known

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    This exactly
     
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  7. Ole Cowboy

    Ole Cowboy TGT Addict

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    Few here may be missing the point of the discussion. As we speak the Army is moving to a new caliber, the 5.56 is leaving the building. While they have not made a decision yet, they intend to sooner rather than later.

    My number 1 point and were I on the board I would ask the question: Is there nothing that is out there now that cannot do the job we want, I just have a hard time with reinventing the wheel...that IMO should be our last choice. Because we drive the train and coming up with an all-new round will affect all services and NATO.

    Functionality is key and right now emerging tactics are driving the train and forcing us into a new round. Tactics are calling for soldiers engaging out to 800m. I am just not sure that is doable at the individual soldier level, that is a high bar. Anyhow another discussion on tactics!
     
  8. zackmars

    zackmars Active Member

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    Do you know how many programs and billions of dollars have gone into replacing 5.56 and the ar15? SALVO, SPIW, G11, ACR, OICW, XM8, and a few humdred tests of the M16/M4 of varying degrees of legitimacy sprinkled in... And this has been going on since the 5.56 was adopted.

    Don't hold your breath. While 5.56 isnt infallible and there is a chance it may get replaced, its far more likely that everyone once again realizes that its just a waste of money and the current system does 99% of the job at 1/10th the price.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
    Charlie likes this.
  9. easy rider

    easy rider Allotropic Transformer TGT Supporter

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    Then again, we're talking government, and I used to work for the DoD.
     
  10. avvidclif

    avvidclif RFTW 2010

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    My thoughts. And I'm sure I will get corrected if needed. If a bullet has xxx ft lbs of energy(plain physics) and hits an object but does not exit then the object absorbs all xxx ft lbs of energy. I'm not discussing damage or anything else but say 1000ft lbs of energy is absorbed in a body something is going to get hurt.
     


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