Breaking news shots fired at trump rally

[WilyRobin]

Maybe nobody is right in these first few hours.
It's just stuff on the internet.

Settle down and check yourselves.

Shit is real now.
Don't throw fuel on a fire.

I will be waiting on more verifiable “facts” not speculation! There will be more “facts” revealed, and probably no surprise to some of us!
I fear what may happen next!
“If they can’t have it they will burn it down”

 

[Hoji]

 

[Hoji]

Based on?

Jack Ruby/LHO?
Not saying this is the case, but there is a precedent.

 

[oldag]

Seems like a drone would have picked up on the shooter.

I reckon there weren't any available.

Or they are too expensive for the SS to afford?

As to your point - Exactly!

One drone with someone monitoring its feed would have prevented this. Inexcusable in this day and age. This a good part of why I say the SS did not do their job.

I have not watched all the videos, but an acquaintance tells me one female SS agent has serious trouble getting her pistol out of the holster.

Watch the SS's actions following Reagan's shooting and this episode. Seems very different to me.

 

[toddnjoyce]

In other news, nobody’s said Biden is too old to run in 24hrs or so.

 

[oldag]

Depends on the drone.

Typically, drones have relatively short battery life. You’d need one fairly large with a good camera, and a large screen from viewing.

For the size of the area, Mark 1 eyeball is probably sufficient and cheaper to operate.

I’m not saying he couldn’t have been seen with a drone. Just that drones aren’t the greatest thing ever for every situation. Maybe they should be incorporated in to SS security. Would at least provide some footage for the investigation afterwards.

I believe the Ukranians and Russians have shown the utility of drones for observation.

So what if the battery runs down after a while? They are not expensive. Send another one up.

 

[easy rider]

Everything is easy to prevent in hindsight.

 

[oldag]

Two different questions being asked, so I’ll answer this way.

1. The mission is executive protection and the principal isn’t dead: success.

2. Lessons learned. Lots to unpack here and, honestly none of it is tactical.

The hardest part of the mission is there can never be failure. Not mission failure, but failure in the eyes of the public. Historically, there’s been some trouble with detail augmentees and/or post-standers getting in trouble in a foreign land, but that’s not at play here.

You frequently have good things to share.

But in this day and time, how do you excuse not having a drone up? Drone feed would have readily revealed someone crawling up on a roof. That would easily stand out.

Would that not be considered tactical?

And the President being wounded meets any rational definition of failure. Just because the shot missed being deadly by less than an inch does not mean success.

If one my employees has a near miss safety incident, I do NOT consider that success. Rather a failure where we were fortunate not to have someone killed.

 

[oldag]

Admin should CLOSE this thread and perhaps reopen it later when things and people, members calm down and more useful information has been issued.
As of now it's just a Free for all! Ted?

No.

If every thread that gets a little off track was locked, there would be few open threads.

This is not out of hand.

It will come back to center as nearly it always does.

 

[oldag]

Everything is easy to prevent in hindsight.

I do not believe having a drone up at an outdoor rally is second guessing. Not with the ubiquity of drones and state of drone technology.

 

[easy rider]

I do not believe having a drone up at an outdoor rally is second guessing. Not with the ubiquity of drones and state of drone technology.

I'm not doubting that things could have been better prepared. Trump has done how many outdoor rallies now? When things get redundant, people get complacent. Certainly indoors is much easier to control, but I understand Trump's liking the outdoors, but things like how much time to prepare and where it will be held come into play. I can't imagine what it would be like to be in charge of Trump's campaign rallies, but the logistics of it must be a nightmare.

 

[Renegade]

Wow. Was off grid camping when this happened. Phone blew UP when I got signal a few hours ago.

What a Colossal SS failure. Careers are going to end over this. That building would easily be the #1 threat location for a sniper, and they should have had eyes on it. Trump is only alive because shooter was 1 inch left. The timeline is going to be interesting about what they knew and when they knew it, given reports folks were telling police they saw shooter climbing onto roof.

Sorry to hear innocents were injured/killed.

 

[Iowashooter]

Interesting comments by a former Secret Service guy.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/oU1aMyudgmkddVwC/?mibextid=s54t8k

Interesting, yes… but IMHO he severely underplays the horrible SS job that permitted this to happen

And.… we aren‘t “Monday morning quarterbacking” like he suggests… we SAW it with our own eyes… we saw roofs that were not protected by LEO or SS, we saw eye witnesses trying to get the attention of SS and police saying hey… there is a guy with a rifle up there

he correctly identifies the divisive politics that are the root cause of the hate… but he incorrectly lets his former colleagues off too easily

 

[toddnjoyce]

You frequently have good things to share.

But in this day and time, how do you excuse not having a drone up? Drone feed would have readily revealed someone crawling up on a roof. That would easily stand out.

Would that not be considered tactical?

Absent a credible threat, there may be guidance based on case law that limits the use of surveillance technologies by the government at political rallies/events. UAV stuff that came after my time and I never touched candidate stuff due to limits on how DoD can be tasked to support USSS ops.

…And the President being wounded meets any rational definition of failure....

While a technicality, Trump is not President. What USSS can do with respect to thePresident is vastly expanded over what they can do for a candidate/former president, both of whom are essentially private citizens and not an officer/chief executive of the government. He is a former president running as a candidate for re-election and is the presumed nominee. Several different authorities at play here.

 

[Iowashooter]

Wow. Was off grid camping when this happened. Phone blew UP when I got signal a few hours ago.

What a Colossal SS failure. Careers are going to end over this. That building would easily be the #1 threat location for a sniper, and they should have had eyes on it. Trump is only alive because shooter was 1 inch left. The timeline is going to be interesting about what they knew and when they knew it, given reports folks were telling police they saw shooter climbing onto roof.

Sorry to hear innocents were injured/killed.

Best summary of this whole thread

 

[surevaliance]

View attachment 461660

I believe the Ukranians and Russians have shown the utility of drones for observation.

So what if the battery runs down after a while? They are not expensive. Send another one up.

There are larger drones with scooters’ gasoline motors.

 

[JColumbus]

Everyone needs to see this. I saw this in a documentary about a decade ago and was reminded of it yesterday for obvious reasons. The secret service was called off of the rear bumper of JFK's car. Had they been there, things would likely had been different. The secret service, in my opinion, isn't an agency meant to guard the presidents, it's meant to serve as the agency who allows for the removal of one who is either not supposed to be in office, or is working against those who govern in the shadows. There are many good people who work within the secret service, just like there are good people in the CIA, FBI, and even as ****'n stupid as you gotta be to work in the ATF, the ATF as well. Obviously it's not the good ones who are appointed to top positions. Therefore, something I've not heard anyone talk about yet, is I think Trump would probably be better off with his own private security detail. Vetted of course. Anyway, watch this video, it's only a couple of minutes long.



For some stupid ****'n reason it plays on youtube so you have to go there to see it.

 

[popper]

Civies tell Popo 'there's a guy with a gun', LE on different channel relay eventually to SS, then snipers. Snipers couldn't see more than the kids head. Did what was needed when they could. Biggest fail was NOT putting someone on the other roof. My experience with SS and FBI, nice folks, talented but a little arrogant.
"Trump is only alive because shooter was 1 inch left." Nope, Trump was right in his statement 'hand of God'. The SS gal did exactly what she was supposed to do - shield Trump and maybe take a bullet for him. Which of you would do that?

 

[Iowashooter]

Hurt your feeling so bad you had to respond twice

Yes, but here’s the real deal… I can learn to use the ignore button… you will need to read the manual first

 

[Renegade]

Wow. Was off grid camping when this happened. Phone blew UP when I got signal a few hours ago.

What a Colossal SS failure. Careers are going to end over this. That building would easily be the #1 threat location for a sniper, and they should have had eyes on it. Trump is only alive because shooter was 1 inch left. The timeline is going to be interesting about what they knew and when they knew it, given reports folks were telling police they saw shooter climbing onto roof.

Sorry to hear innocents were injured/killed.

I also noticed no bulletproof glass in front of the podium. Would not want to be the person who made that decision.