Battery replacement is more than the car is worth.

[G O B]

Just replaced the batteries in the golf car, $900! The old ones were shot, and only 10yrs old.
That works out to $90 per year for batteries. Even with electricity for charging, it is about even with a gas one.
The convenience of just jumping in and GO is priceless. An electric car for a City commute makes sense. One for a long commute or vacation is ludicrous!

 

[Brains]

Didn't necessarily intend for him to rage quit the forum, but if he does decide to come back hopefully the point was driven home that freedom of speech doesn't guarantee freedom from an uncomfortable response. Like I can claim that I can shoot 0.1 MOA @ 1000 yards, but the astute among us would quickly call bullshit. The reality is that I've never actually shot 1000 yards. I imagine a similar situation applies with our Tesla friend.

 

[alwho421]

sit down and calculate how much electric power we need to generate to charge all these cars. The result is amazing.
That's why I propose we built nuclear power plants in downtown Austin, Dallas and Houston. Demoncraps what electric cars put the consequence in their backyard.

 

[Tnhawk]

Just replaced the batteries in the golf car, $900! The old ones were shot, and only 10yrs old.
That works out to $90 per year for batteries. Even with electricity for charging, it is about even with a gas one.
The convenience of just jumping in and GO is priceless. An electric car for a City commute makes sense. One for a long commute or vacation is ludicrous!

An EV may be a good vehicle for some drivers but for many they would be an expensive and impractical choice.
The EV concept should be allowed to thrive on its own merit not on false claims of owners, manufacturers, and those with political agendas.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

"rage quit the forum"

Bwahahahahaha!

Sell that pro-ev marxist bullshit elsewhere - round heah, we drive big V-8's that use God's fuel...it's called either gasoline of diesel...now get lost faggot...

 

[Tnhawk]

"rage quit the forum"

Bwahahahahaha!

Sell that pro-ev marxist bullshit elsewhere - round heah, we drive big V-8's that use God's fuel...it's called either gasoline of diesel...now get lost faggot...

Diesel, gasoline and electric each has its own merits and limitations. The false claims by some owners or the government does little to influence our choice of vehicles. If the EV platform is successful, it will be on its own merit, not on tax incentives or false claims.

 

[Brains]

EV will be successful, eventually. Barring an unforeseen significant breakthrough in energy storage tech, it may not be within our lifetimes. Until then I don't feel at all bad about driving my 6.4L V8 485HP land barge.

 

[Axxe55]

Just replaced the batteries in the golf car, $900! The old ones were shot, and only 10yrs old.
That works out to $90 per year for batteries. Even with electricity for charging, it is about even with a gas one.
The convenience of just jumping in and GO is priceless. An electric car for a City commute makes sense. One for a long commute or vacation is ludicrous!

Sounds about right. My brother charges about $800 to $1000 for battery replacement on a golf cart. Norm is usually about six years on a set of batteries. We got almost 11 years on the set of batteries in my golf cart.

 

[Axxe55]

EV will be successful, eventually. Barring an unforeseen significant breakthrough in energy storage tech, it may not be within our lifetimes. Until then I don't feel at all bad about driving my 6.4L V8 485HP land barge.

Battery techology and prices, IMO are the biggest hurdles to be crossed.

 

[Axxe55]

Didn't necessarily intend for him to rage quit the forum, but if he does decide to come back hopefully the point was driven home that freedom of speech doesn't guarantee freedom from an uncomfortable response. Like I can claim that I can shoot 0.1 MOA @ 1000 yards, but the astute among us would quickly call bullshit. The reality is that I've never actually shot 1000 yards. I imagine a similar situation applies with our Tesla friend.

Well if he did rage quit, that says pretty much all we need to know. He's thin-skinned and can't hang with the big dogs.

If you make claims, that seem over the top, then someone is going to call BS, and you then have to put up or shut up.

 

[oldag]

If the EV platform is successful, it will be on its own merit, not on tax incentives or false claims.

Not sure I can agree with that. Utility scale wind and solar would not be anywhere near what it is had it not been for taxpayer subsidies.

 

[TheDan]

Teslas are 80% US made. That's BOM, not just assembled. It's impressive and commendable considering no other automotive manufacturer is close to that.

That said, Tesla is a terrible car. It's a fucking iphone with wheels. They are overcomplicated, illassembled, spyware machines.

I could actually be enticed into an EV for a daily driver if there was one that is simple and well made. A nice golf cart is preferable to the "innovative" EVs.

 

[Axxe55]

Not sure I can agree with that. Utility scale wind and solar would not be anywhere near what it is had it not been for taxpayer subsidies.

But at the same time, the government should not be trying to force consumers into EV's either, by making decisions that price gasoline and diesel into being too expensive for people to purchase, and making crude oil to produce them unavailable. And making outlandish claims that technology can't meet in an unrealist time period.

 

[Tnhawk]

Not sure I can agree with that. Utility scale wind and solar would not be anywhere near what it is had it not been for taxpayer subsidies.

Most of don't have a choice in utilities or their costs. However tax dollars shouldn't be given to some based on their choice or needs for a vehicle. My neighbor shouldn't have his tax dollars utilized to provide subsidies to me if I chose to have a powerful engine in my vehicle, a 4 cylinder or an ev. In America it should be my choice to purchase and pay for my property, not someone else's tax burden.

 

[Axxe55]

Most of don't have a choice in utilities or their costs. However tax dollars shouldn't be given to some based on their choice or needs for a vehicle. My neighbor shouldn't have his tax dollars utilized to provide subsidies to me if I chose to have a powerful engine in my vehicle, a 4 cylinder or an ev. In America it should be my choice to purchase and pay for my property, not someone else's tax burden.

Exactly, markets should be driven by consumers, by their choices to buy the product that best suits their needs, not tax incentives or penalties.

I see tax penalties being a step for them to use to force us into buying more EV's in the future.

My father and I were talking the other day, and he said, if he still lived in or around Houston, he would seriously consider getting an EV as his primary vehicle to drive every day.

 

[no2gates]

Teslas are 80% US made. That's BOM, not just assembled. It's impressive and commendable considering no other automotive manufacturer is close to that.

That said, Tesla is a terrible car. It's a fucking iphone with wheels. They are overcomplicated, illassembled, spyware machines.

I could actually be enticed into an EV for a daily driver if there was one that is simple and well made. A nice golf cart is preferable to the "innovative" EVs.

Overcomplicated? It's probably damn close or possibly even less complicated than a modern ICE powered car.
There is so much computer shit in cars now.

 

[Tnhawk]

Overcomplicated? It's probably damn close or possibly even less complicated than a modern ICE powered car.
There is TOO much computer shit in cars now.

 

[TheDan]

Overcomplicated? It's probably damn close or possibly even less complicated than a modern ICE powered car.
There is so much computer shit in cars now.

Mechanically they are very simple. The software in it is ridiculous. It could be "just a car" with an arduino and 20 lines of code, but instead it has to be a ridiculous personal entertainment device with snitch capability and over the air updates.

 

[oldag]

But at the same time, the government should not be trying to force consumers into EV's either, by making decisions that price gasoline and diesel into being too expensive for people to purchase, and making crude oil to produce them unavailable. And making outlandish claims that technology can't meet in an unrealist time period.

Most of don't have a choice in utilities or their costs. However tax dollars shouldn't be given to some based on their choice or needs for a vehicle. My neighbor shouldn't have his tax dollars utilized to provide subsidies to me if I chose to have a powerful engine in my vehicle, a 4 cylinder or an ev. In America it should be my choice to purchase and pay for my property, not someone else's tax burden.

I may have been misinterpreted here. I was not advocating the massive addition of wind and solar. Those who have read my prior thoughts on this topic know this. I was merely trying to point out that taxpayer dollars were misused to prop up and promote an industry. I do not agree with using taxpayer dollars to do this in renewables.

I also disapprove of taxpayer subsidies for EV.

 

[Sasquatch]

Warranties Defined: The Truth behind the Promises

In car commercials, quick-talking voiceovers promise warranties that are bumper to bumper, lifetime, powertrain, or even America's best. But what does it mean?

www.caranddriver.com

Gotta scroll, but they touch on traction battery warranties for EVs - Ford's Fusion for example has an 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty for the traction battery. Chrysler warrants the Pacifica traction battery for 10 years / 100,000 miles. Hyundai EV's have lifetime warranty on traction batteries.

For the icky sticky California crowd, California state law mandates 10 years / 150,000 miles on traction batteries for EV's.

IF the warranties on traction batteries pay out, or they're transferrable, ok. Just don't keep the thing more than 7 or 8 years and let it become the dealer's problem when you trade it in. They either replace the traction battery at wholesale costs to make the vehicle appealing on the used market, or they'll get so much push back from $10-25K (or more) repairs on used EV's that they will *have* to change.

The biggest issues for EV adoptions still remain - power grid can't take the mass switch to EV's, there are not near enough EV charging stations, EV's take waaaaaaaaay longer to charge, even on quick chargers (which shorten battery life vs trickle charging) and the range on most EV's won't work for anyone who doesn't live in a city and live life within a few miles of home or a convenient charging station.

EV's aren't road trip worthy cars yet. My dad & I drove to Utah last February - 1400+ miles each way, there is NO way we could've made that trip in an EV, there just were not enough charging stations close enough together. We were in his Chevy 2500 gasser and were pushing it 300 miles sometimes - we tried filling every 150 just to be safe.

There's also no way we would've accomplished the trip in the time frame we did - leaving on a Friday and arriving home on a Monday morning with only one night spent in a motel (Saturday night) if we were in an EV. Our average fuel / piss / food pit stop was 5 or 6 minutes. We probably made 12 fuel stops on that trip (varying the distance between stops) - so even adding the ones we might've taken 10 minutes to stretch the legs on, which were only a handful - we spent less than an hour and a half at gas stations over 3.5 days.

IF there were EV chargers every 150 miles (going up the Rocky Mountains you're not getting max range, for sure) - we're looking at 19 charging stops. Figure if they're fast chargers and take 20 minutes to top up the batteries, that's almost 6.5 hours just for charging. Who wants to waste 4X as much time when there's shit to do and miles to put behind you? It would've realistically added an entire day to our trip.

I do think EV's are cool in their own rights - I'm the opposite of a muslce car / loud engine fan. Too many years driving commercial trucks and going crazy from diesel noise - I LIKE quiet cars. EV's are quiet. Tesla needs better insulation from road noise, IMO, but I like how quiet they are. You can hear yourself think. They do have a lot of torque and they can be zippy and fun to drive. Tesla is over engineered though and they make some shit too complex. You can tell it was partly designed by a computer engineer - probably some asshole that worked for Microsoft before going to Tesla judging by how shit gets hidden in menu after menu.

I still think the solution is diesel electric hybrids like I said before, or gas-electric hybrids but not necessarily how Toyota does it with the Prius. Small ICE engine to power electric drive motors. You'd get way better range, still get EV like performance (torque & speed) and we can all link hands and sing Cum By Yani and make the Lorax all happy and shit.