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  • rotor

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    There's a major capacity issue as well. 40+ years ago we decided it's mean to lock up really unstable people. The facilities were closed.
    I think the introduction of drugs like thorazine and stelazine had a tremendous impact on closing mental institutions. Once the institutions were closed there was no place to put all of the serious crazy.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    It all depends on how you look at things. On another site it is listed as....

    TX: Austin man defending his home with rifle from burglars shot and killed by police


    Perception is different and I don't know which is correct, just that there are alternate universes.
    Not really directed at you Rotor, or anyone.

    The truth is not what is important.

    As Indy said it is about fact., but specifically it is about what was reasonably believed to be fact by the officer at the moment the trigger was pulled. That is what justifies the action or condemns it.

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    toddnjoyce

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    …Theres a lot of people that need to be locked up for everyone’s protection that can’t be because the right person hasn’t heard them be threatening.
    Tangentially, as a veteran I’ve been told for the last 1/3d of my career to get over the stigma of mental health support and treatment in all it’s various forms.

    And for the most part, whether it’s counseling, coping tools and mechanisms, outpatient or inpatient clinical treatment and/or medication, objectively, they’re right. Get treatment to get and stay healthy

    I think it’s high time the rest of America accepts that. Whether it’s homelessness, LGBTQ issues, depression, anger, whatever it is, there’s probably a healthier way to cope and if you’re going to force it on military members, it’s high time to force it on the general public, especially considering it’s science backed with real studies to support it.
     

    deemus

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    Well up to 80’s it was pretty easy to get someone committed to a mental institution. Too easy. They changed the laws but maybe swing too far the other way.

    The gentleman I spoke of was at some point diagnosed with acute paranoid schizophrenia. He was in and out of the VA and a couple physic wards. But could leave after short stays. It had to be proven that he was a danger to himself or others before he would get permanent lockdown. Which needed to happen. I think his family was relieved when it finally did.
     

    mongoose

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    Not really directed at you Rotor, or anyone.

    The truth is not what is important.

    As Indy said it is about fact., but specifically it is about what was reasonably believed to be fact by the officer at the moment the trigger was pulled. That is what justifies the action or condemns it.

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    I believe the term “reasonable” is what will be debated.
     

    rotor

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    Fixed that headline to reality.
    Well you didn't fix my headline (it wasn't mine either). The only purpose of the post was to show that not everyone sees this shooting in the same way. The only thing that I really know is that there was very little time between the order to put the gun down and the LEO shots. I don't know more and if you do please post it.
     

    bbbass

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    Could not have happened... has to be a made up thing; for gosh sakes, it's AUSTIN, the liberal mecca of TX AFAIK, cops don't shoot folk there, they just ask them nicely to behave.
     

    deemus

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    Well you didn't fix my headline (it wasn't mine either). The only purpose of the post was to show that not everyone sees this shooting in the same way. The only thing that I really know is that there was very little time between the order to put the gun down and the LEO shots. I don't know more and if you do please post it.

    It’s coming.
     

    Shady

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    when you have tenths of a second to decide if that dude with a gun that just fired a round is dropping it or raising it.

    I know what I would probably do.

    Sure watching a slow motion video makes the call easy
     

    rotor

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    Wall Street Journal had a good post today about this shooting. Looks like a poorly trained cop killed an innocent homeowner. Article is copyright.
     

    candcallen

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    Wall Street Journal had a good post today about this shooting. Looks like a poorly trained cop killed an innocent homeowner. Article is copyright.
    Poorly trained? Probably not.

    Poorly executed encounter? Possibly.

    Innocent home owner? Absolutely not.

    Why even mention a "post", what ever that is, without reference or context and a conclusion? Is it an opinion, editorial or actual news report and by who?

    Link would be nice.

    Let me help.


    That story is a the police was biased reform the police type of thing. Saying the Hispanic officer was racist cause the homeowner was darker skinned than him causes a loss of credibility with me pretty quick.

    There is no new evidence in it except the opinion of an evident police trainer with a physics expertise who said the bullets travel so fast that the guy didn't hear a word the cop said.

    We are still at the position of needing to know exactly what info the police were given, i.e. hearing didpatch tapes. Beyond that a home owner supposedly knows people called police, was safe outside the home from any supposed intruder but was shooting into it.

    The guy had some issue beyond thinking someone was in his house.

    Yes it appears the cop fired quickly but he had just heard shots as he was driving up. The guy stepped off the porch in the low ready position and I could easily see where a responding officer saw a threat. There was no cover to find from an AR. They were across the front yard basically and long guns in hand after hearing atleast 2 shots fired just as they approached.

    So we're back to needing info. That story certainly doesn't have it. I've formed the conclusion that you can't make one yet.

    Except the facts from the video. They are the guy was shooting into a house as police arrived. The guy was obviously not clear headed IMHO based on his comments in his own security video. The officer obviously assumed an imminent threat was walking towards him or facing him. He fired immediately as he finished his command. He is not required to finish the command if he thinks he is about to have a weapon raised at him.

    The homeowner wasn't just an innocent guy standing in his yard executed by a racist austin police officer. That's complete bullshit. That's what your story, the one you mentioned, is trying to say. IMHO

    Once the facts are in we can decide if the officer was properly informed and acted against policy or the law. That conclusion can still be reached, or if there is indeed an issue with training in Austin. We can also discuss if we're happy with police tactics in general.
     
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    rotor

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    Poorly trained? Probably not.

    Poorly executed encounter? Possibly.

    Innocent home owner? Absolutely not.

    Why even mention a "post", what ever that is, without reference or context and a conclusion? Is it an opinion, editorial or actual news report and by who?

    Link would be nice.

    Let me help.


    That story is a the police was biased reform the police type of thing. Saying the Hispanic officer was racist cause the homeowner was darker skinned than him causes a loss of credibility with me pretty quick.

    There is no new evidence in it except the opinion of an evident police trainer with a physics expertise who said the bullets travel so fast that the guy didn't hear a word the cop said.

    We are still at the position of needing to know exactly what info the police were given, i.e. hearing didpatch tapes. Beyond that a home owner supposedly knows people called police, was safe outside the home from any supposed intruder but was shooting into it.

    The guy had some issue beyond thinking someone was in his house.

    Yes it appears the cop fired quickly but he had just heard shots as he was driving up. The guy stepped off the porch in the low ready position and I could easily see where a responding officer saw a threat. There was no cover to find from an AR. They were across the front yard basically and long guns in hand after hearing atleast 2 shots fired just as they approached.

    So we're back to needing info. That story certainly doesn't have it. I've formed the conclusion that you can't make one yet.

    Except the facts from the video. They are the guy was shooting into a house as police arrived. The guy was obviously not clear headed IMHO based on his comments in his own security video. The officer obviously assumed an imminent threat was walking towards him or facing him. He fired immediately as he finished his command. He is not required to finish the command if he thinks he is about to have a weapon raised at him.

    The homeowner wasn't just an innocent guy standing in his yard executed by a racist austin police officer. That's complete bullshit. That's what your story, the one you mentioned, is trying to say. IMHO

    Once the facts are in we can decide if the officer was properly informed and acted against policy or the law. That conclusion can still be reached, or if there is indeed an issue with training in Austin. We can also discuss if we're happy with police tactics in general.
    Your link to WSJ was dead too on my computer. It appears that the cop shot the homeowner almost instantly with the drop your gun command. That is from the badge cam. In my opinion from what I have seen this was a bad shoot. Your opinion may be different. I predict huge legal payout from Austin. We shall see.
     
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    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    Your link to WSJ was dead too on my computer. It appears that the cop shot the homeowner almost instantly with the drop your gun command. That is from the badge cam. In my opinion from what I have seen this was a bad shoot. Your opinion may be different. I predict huge legal payout from Austin. We shall see.
    Did you watch all the video from the homeowners security cam.
     

    rotor

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    Did you watch all the video from the homeowners security cam.
    Yes I did. Two people can watch the same thing and come up with different conclusions. This guy was a successful business person and this doesn’t fit the pattern of a nut job. I think he believed there was a burglar in his house. The only absolute is that the cop gave a command and instantly fired his gun killing the homeowner.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    Wall Street Journal had a good post today about this shooting. Looks like a poorly trained cop killed an innocent homeowner. Article is copyright.
    WSJ has no idea what they are talking about.

    It was a justified shooting. Sad someone with in an apparent MH episode died, but the officer made the right choice.

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