Armed March on DC this 4th.

[ROGER4314]

Being old is a real advantage when it comes to things like this. I lived in Tulsa when the Kent State killings happened in Ohio. In the blink of an eye, that went from a peaceful demonstration to death in the streets. Once that first round was fired, all Hell broke loose and unarmed demonstrators died in a hail of bullets.

Loaded guns, high emotions, LEO's armed and ready, genuine security concerns and a leader who is a muckraker spell trouble to me! A person would need to be seriously deranged not to see danger in that combination.

In principle, the marchers may be right. In principle, I might even agree with them. In practice, there is only one likely outcome. A knothead will accidentally fire a round and shix will hit the fan.

Flash

 

[General Zod]

Man, I'm actually surprise by the amount of "dumb idea" comments on here. This is exactly why America is in the position it is today! EVERYONE IS AFRAID OF THE GOVERNMENT! Our Four Fathers are rolling in their graves! How have "WE THE PEOPLE" turned into "WE THE SHEEP"? Nobody wants to stand toe to toe with the government when there's chances, but we all wanna run our mouths about "how it needs to change". I'll tell you one thing, NO politician is going to help get it back to where it needs to be, except for maybe one of us crazy wack job "Libertarians". Politicians are getting their pockets filled with money, while we bust our asses to provide for whomever we need to provide for, and get more money taken from us. Oh, and our freedoms.

I'm 25 years old, and in my relatively short time on this planet, I'm quite furious to see the United States of America turn to shit, a bigger federal government, and less and less freedoms everyday.

If the time for the American people to stand up and get control of our country back isn't right now, it sure is rapidly approaching.

-End Rant-

There is a huge difference between taking action and playing right into the hands of the other side. This march is very much the latter. All this will do is reinforce the negative stereotypes that are already used against us and there is an extremely high probability that some idiot - either protester or LEO - will overreact and cost lives. I'm trying as hard as I can and have yet to see how this march can have a positive result for gun rights. What I do see is it fueling the next round of anti-2A legislation.

 

[TX69]

Honest and serious question.
Where is "that line"?

That "line" is filled with bodies.

 

[M. Sage]

I do not trust this Adam guy. I haven't seen a lot out of him, but he doesn't seem to be a libertarian, more an an anarchist if anything. There are a few other reasons I distrust him, but I'm really not feeling like this is even INTENDED to end well. Seems like he's trying to get people in trouble, because he's that kind of person.

 

[Younggun]

Or trying to push us to that "line". It did cross my mind that he may be hoping for this to go south thinking he may be able to use the bloodshed to rally support.

 

[Driller]

Its Washington,,,,,gun ban dont mean squat. All the thugs are packing.

Driller

 

[espy59lc]

Slow down, turbo. You'll blow a gasket. No one here at TGT is advocating we do nothing. No one here is afraid to stand "toe-to-toe" with the government but the cooler heads know that the best course of action is to change things from the ballot box... not to march on D.C. armed to the teeth. That's EXACTLY the sort of reactionary bullshit that causes the rest of the population to view gun owners as bat-shit crazy, war-mongering lunatics. We could do without that stigma.

Our Founding Fathers exhausted ALL other options before they raised their muskets up against the crown and it wasn't until the redcoats knocked on their doors demanding physical disarmament did they fight. I think they would want us to work through peaceful resistance until the very end. Marching on Washington with an armed mob is a recipe for disaster (believe me I've seen mob mentality first-hand and it ain't pretty) and it will polarize the country even more than it already is.

We'd have a hard time changing the hearts and minds of the fence-sitters if they see a bloodbath at the nation's capital...

Changes in the ballot box has really worked for us the last 2 times eh?

 

[winchster]

Changes in the ballot box has really worked for us the last 2 times eh?

We are now outnumbered at the ballot box by people actively on the government dole. It will only get worse from here, never again will we see a proponent of smaller government and lower taxes win the majority in Washington.
The next step for the progressives is to stack the courts in their favor. Once we lose the scotus, every right we have is up for grabs.
We have passed the tipping point of being able to hold our own or gain any ground back. Those of you worried about negative stereotypes being thrust upon us must not be paying attention. Your average gun owning, bible thumping, red blooded American is now referred to as an extremist in virtually all corners of the media. We have become the fringe. The mainstream is now in full progressive mode.
Actions such as this march, may actually force the progressives to openly admit what we all know they really want. It may force them to move beyond incremental steps and make a bold step towards actual registration and open confiscation. It may even require bloodshed for it to matter, since without it, the general populace may never even know this happened. Forcing their hand may be the only way to wake enough people up so that my previous statement about the ballot box can be proven false.
This is all just my opinion and the way I see it.

 

[Younggun]

For those who are ready to pick up a gun and fight "them" right now, it is important to keep a few things in mind.

During the Cold War enough nukes were created to destroy the planet several time over. The nuclear deterrent was known as "MAD", Mutually Assured Destruction. We can expect the same if civil war breaks out in this country. Both sides would be completely destroyed in the conflict. Even the winning side would lose.

The second consideration is what would come out of such a battle. Two options, "they" win and it becomes a totalitarian government hell bent on preventing that type of uprising from ever according in the future. Or B, "we" win. In which case we would have a nation in ruin and the incredible task of setting up a new form of government with millions of worn and starving citizens looking for some for. Of stability.

This has happened many times in the past and many times in the past they have put leaders in place who promised to fix everything only to wind up in the same situation they just taught to get out of. Add in that there will be a large number of people who have just come through an incredibly bloody war and are still willing to fight if they feel they are being wronged by this new government.

The. Consider the collateral damage. Your children and wives going hungry. The flu is suddenly a life threatening illness for everyone, not just for those with weaker immune systems. Those on insulin or organ rejection medication will probably not be able to get what they need and will likely become secondary casualties in the conflict. Schools and education will probably come to a halt at some point. A large portion of the workforce will probably be laid off as the economy collapses.

So, at this point is it worth all of that. Is our situation so dire that it is indeed time to completely destroy this nation and start over.

I would give my life to ensure my children are able to grow up and be free, but I will not give my life and take away their father and cause them to go hungry and deal with disease and the early death of their loved ones if I believe it is at all possible to start putting this nation back on the right track by any other means.

 

[ROGER4314]

The organizer wants to line up thousands of rifle carrying "troops", disorganized, with zero training and wants them to march in front of heavily armed LEO's. That kind of crap went out with Picket's Charge in the Civil War and is a recipe for disaster.

I saw enough blood flowing in the 1960's over racial and anti war protests so I hope it never comes to bloodshed. That isn't fun, funny or something that I want.

Hypothetically speaking, if an imaginary force....we'll say the Japanese came ashore, the opposition would be taking single rounds from every tree, bush and rock. Nothing would be safe and there would be no refuge. They would be no Picket's charge, skirmish lines or hand to hand combat. It would be a war of attrition. POP! ...........one less aggressor and the rats scurry back to their holes.

Flash

 

[Flyingswords]

The organizer wants to line up thousands of rifle carrying "troops", disorganized, with zero training and wants them to march in front of heavily armed LEO's. That kind of crap went out with Picket's Charge in the Civil War and is a recipe for disaster.

I saw enough blood flowing in the 1960's over racial and anti war protests so I hope it never comes to bloodshed. That isn't fun, funny or something that I want.

Hypothetically speaking, if an imaginary force....we'll say the Japanese came ashore, the opposition would be taking single rounds from every tree, bush and rock. Nothing would be safe and there would be no refuge. They would be no Picket's charge, skirmish lines or hand to hand combat. It would be a war of attrition. POP! ...........one less aggressor and the rats scurry back to their holes.

Flash

Dont forget the one battle where Gen Hood lost 6 generals who basically did the same exact type of assault

 

[JColumbus]

Man, I'm actually surprise by the amount of "dumb idea" comments on here. This is exactly why America is in the position it is today! EVERYONE IS AFRAID OF THE GOVERNMENT! Our Four Fathers are rolling in their graves! How have "WE THE PEOPLE" turned into "WE THE SHEEP"? Nobody wants to stand toe to toe with the government when there's chances, but we all wanna run our mouths about "how it needs to change". I'll tell you one thing, NO politician is going to help get it back to where it needs to be, except for maybe one of us crazy wack job "Libertarians". Politicians are getting their pockets filled with money, while we bust our asses to provide for whomever we need to provide for, and get more money taken from us. Oh, and our freedoms.

I'm 25 years old, and in my relatively short time on this planet, I'm quite furious to see the United States of America turn to shit, a bigger federal government, and less and less freedoms everyday.

If the time for the American people to stand up and get control of our country back isn't right now, it sure is rapidly approaching.

-End Rant-

I usually don't read through an 8 page thread that I am late one and your comment was going to be the last one till I skipped to page 8. God bless you, I damn near started to shed a tear with all of this ridiculous discussion on this topic. I'm 28 years and I am sick to my stomach as well.

To all my fellow TGT members that I love to debate, chat, and bicker with,
What the hell is going on with you guys? I KNOW most of you don't do a damn thing in attempting to preserve or restore our rights. Those of you who do, discuss away. What have I done? Not much. Aside from writing my reps, joining the NRA and preaching daily to friends and family, I don't do much els, but I'm not gonna attack a group who is doing SOMETHING like the left attacks us. I opened this thread expecting to see a lot of support. Yes, acknowledgment of what could go wrong and how testy this is, but loads of support. Maybe it's just that some of us still believe in the "PEN". Well, I don't. Some comments state the left is waiting for another crisis to push more gun control and this will give it to em... Well, a crisis WILL come. You all know that. So that shouldn't be an excuse to not take action. It saddens me to feel that all I really see in this thread are slaves, discussing why some other slaves are dumb for challenging their master. I'm shocked with a lump in my throat. I have seen lots of talk on this forum of giving our guns to the men that come for them, and THAT saddened me. Now this. Regression, my friends. God bless you guys and God help us all.

 

[JColumbus]

For those who are ready to pick up a gun and fight "them" right now, it is important to keep a few things in mind.

During the Cold War enough nukes were created to destroy the planet several time over. The nuclear deterrent was known as "MAD", Mutually Assured Destruction. We can expect the same if civil war breaks out in this country. Both sides would be completely destroyed in the conflict. Even the winning side would lose.

The second consideration is what would come out of such a battle. Two options, "they" win and it becomes a totalitarian government hell bent on preventing that type of uprising from ever according in the future. Or B, "we" win. In which case we would have a nation in ruin and the incredible task of setting up a new form of government with millions of worn and starving citizens looking for some for. Of stability.

This has happened many times in the past and many times in the past they have put leaders in place who promised to fix everything only to wind up in the same situation they just taught to get out of. Add in that there will be a large number of people who have just come through an incredibly bloody war and are still willing to fight if they feel they are being wronged by this new government.

The. Consider the collateral damage. Your children and wives going hungry. The flu is suddenly a life threatening illness for everyone, not just for those with weaker immune systems. Those on insulin or organ rejection medication will probably not be able to get what they need and will likely become secondary casualties in the conflict. Schools and education will probably come to a halt at some point. A large portion of the workforce will probably be laid off as the economy collapses.

So, at this point is it worth all of that. Is our situation so dire that it is indeed time to completely destroy this nation and start over.

I would give my life to ensure my children are able to grow up and be free, but I will not give my life and take away their father and cause them to go hungry and deal with disease and the early death of their loved ones if I believe it is at all possible to start putting this nation back on the right track by any other means.

Very good reasoning, Younggun. These are things we really don't consider. I hope it doesn't come to us having to pick up a gun and fight our Gov, but I believe it isn't a bad idea to protest in a manner that may push close to that.

Sometimes a nation NEEDS what it's citizens didn't know it needed. With that said, I leave the rest in God's hands. If they protest and it gets ugly, we deal with what happens next. If it goes relatively peaceful, I believe we congratulate them for having a peaceful protest. Sure, some may be forced to give up their guns for life. Some men give their lives for our freedom, we can surely chance or guns for it? If I had the finances to get to D.C., I would go and to be honest, I would be in fear of the kind of trouble I'd get in and would only take my worst shotgun. This is a protest, not an offensive so there'd be no point in taking your good, expensive rifles. Especially considering they may get taken away. .22's and other cheap rifles get the point across.

I read that the plan was to turn around and go back if they were met with force? That's most likely gonna happen... So what would they have gotten across if that happens?

 

[JColumbus]

Slow down, turbo. You'll blow a gasket. No one here at TGT is advocating we do nothing. No one here is afraid to stand "toe-to-toe" with the government but the cooler heads know that the best course of action is to change things from the ballot box... not to march on D.C. armed to the teeth. That's EXACTLY the sort of reactionary bullshit that causes the rest of the population to view gun owners as bat-shit crazy, war-mongering lunatics. We could do without that stigma.

Our Founding Fathers exhausted ALL other options before they raised their muskets up against the crown and it wasn't until the redcoats knocked on their doors demanding physical disarmament did they fight. I think they would want us to work through peaceful resistance until the very end. Marching on Washington with an armed mob is a recipe for disaster (believe me I've seen mob mentality first-hand and it ain't pretty) and it will polarize the country even more than it already is.

We'd have a hard time changing the hearts and minds of the fence-sitters if they see a bloodbath at the nation's capital...

I understand and agree, but this march is in protest, it's not an attack. Yes it's illegal, but protests are known to have illegal characteristics. If this was a march on the capitol to fight, I'd be totally against it. I believe we still do have legal ways to win. I feel I know we won't, but that avenue is not exhausted. The intent of this march is to be done as a peaceful protest. I understand there are risks. I like to think that with the cops shooting beanbags point blank into peoples faces in NY, they'll think twice before doing it to these protestors.

 

[JColumbus]

What do you guys think of this?

Warning ! Armed March on Washington D.C. on July 4th ! DO NOT GO !! - YouTube

Could it actually be a setup? I have looked more into this and there is a lot of talk about false flag or setup. What do you guys think? Aside from this being a good idea or not WITHOUT these allegations.

 

[ROGER4314]

Whether it's a set up to provoke violence to to discredit pro-gun citizens, it's a very bad idea. The shootings at Kent State are a prime example. Anti war protesters were being observed by Ohio National Guard. Once that first round was fired by accident or on purpose, it left 4 unarmed students dead and nine wounded. Sixty seven rounds were fired in 13 seconds.

That incident shocked the nation and there was a popular song written about it by Neil Young and performed by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young "OHIO":



Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we indeed learn from the past, the gathering in Washington is a massacre waiting to happen!

Flash

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I think it provides an opportunity for the Feds to twist it in so many negative ways, while it provides us very little in the way of gun rights. While I applaud the sentiment it does nothing to accomplish the goal.

If they were going to take over DC, hold it, and setup a new city government I might be a little more enthused about it. The plan now is just to march in, get arrested, become a felon, lose your rights, and maybe go to prison. All of that in return for some air time? Its not a good risk / reward ratio.

 

[Jherico]

Firearms are serious business, that's why they are so important. Adding a firearm to any situation is an escalation of outcomes to include Life and Death. It's why the left hates them and its why the Second Amendment protects them as a means to secure our freedoms. To use them as picket signs in this type of "political protest by civil disobedience" is foolish and counterproductive. A man with a voice is an alternate opinion to be heard or ignored, a man with a gun is a threat...by design. People generally react poorly to threats. In this type of message sending the meaningful element is numbers, not the willingness to stand inches from armed conflict. There are plenty of ways available to say "I will fight for my right to bare arms" without creating a situation were that could so easily play out in its most literal, bloody and final form.

 

[JColumbus]

To use them as picket signs in this type of "political protest by civil disobedience" is foolish and counterproductive. A man with a voice is an alternate opinion to be heard or ignored, a man with a gun is a threat...by design.

I understand your opinion and most of it makes sense but using the word foolish is arrogant in a debatable situation like this. Also, please explain the, "a man with a gun is a threat...by design," view.

 

[recoveringyankee]

A man with a voice is an alternate opinion to be heard or ignored, a man with a gun is a threat...by design.

My gun is defensive and thus only a threat to somebody that wants to do me harm...by design.