5.7X28 or 9X19 carry option

[PinnedandRecessed]

I am not sure if I already posted it here, so here it is.

A decorated, experienced SWAT officer at a U.S. LE agency that has had multiple OIS incidents with 5.7 mm FN P90's has written the following note that his comments equally apply to the 4.6 mm MP7:

”The 5.7 pistol as a carry gun is a mistake. There are far more effective weapons and ammunition combinations out there. The only factor that comes close to equalizing the P90 (not the 5.7 pistol) is it's full auto capability: 900 rpm of very controllable fire. Even this advantage is limited to close-in, CQB type engagements. I can put more rounds on target faster with the P90 than with my M4 in close contact engagements. Unfortunately you may HAVE to put more rounds in the threat due to the lack of damage the projectile causes. The 5.56 is far more effective at getting the attention of men than 5.7 mm. This is not speculation. We have been using 30 P90's for five years now. There have been multiple BG's shot with them. We will not be buying more 5.7 mm or other small caliber PDW systems.

• 30 P90's for five years
• 100,000 rounds per year through those weapons
• very reliable weapon
• very user friendly
• very easy to shoot
• everyone happy
• three OIS's later and some unbelievably poor terminal balistic performace we dropped them quickly.
• 22+ OIS using AR-15's with .223 - everyone’s happy (except the 21 dead bad guys)."

Wow, an AR/M4 beat out a P90. Shocker!

Who'd a thunk a rifle in a larger caliber would be more effective than a pdw designed to replace a 9mm handgun?

 

[DoubleDuty]

I am into 5.7 x 28. I will be reloading it and can get the cost down to .39 a round. I plan on plinking with it. And I could carry it using Hornady Critical Defense. I have the PSA Rock which holds 24 rounds and it fits in my pocket.

 

[surevaliance]

PS90 6.28 lbs
AR15 6.55 lbs
Both same OAL

If for the handguns, old good Glock 17 loaded with bi-metal FMJ will bit the shit out of any 5.7 handgun.

 

[PinnedandRecessed]

Both same OAL

Picture stolen from internet....and the P90 referenced in your "story" would be about six inches shorter than the pictured PS90.

 

[Outrider]

I got 950 rounds of ammo a few months ago. Bought a DBX from Diamondback to put in the truck. For everyday carry though I stuck with 9mm [CZ PO-7 17 rd].

 

[mongoose]

They don’t penetrate a level III vest from a handgun. Have tried it with several flavors of ammo from my 5-7 and exactly zero rounds made it through.

Good to know. Not sure what ammo he planned on using ( still well connected with the military) . He was fairly confident he could.

 

[mongoose]

www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/10/16/5-7x28mm-body-armor/

Interesting read.

 

[DoubleDuty]

Good to know. Not sure what ammo he planned on using ( still well connected with the military) . He was fairly confident he could.

Nato 5.7 will penetrate
SS 190 will penetrate and rounds that don't are going to be painful to the person wearing it.

 

[mongoose]

Nato 5.7 will penetrate
SS 190 will penetrate and rounds that don't are going to be painful to the person wearing it.

Article above fairly well lays out the different rounds capabilities.

 

[Hoji]

Good to know. Not sure what ammo he planned on using ( still well connected with the military) . He was fairly confident he could.

I get to do quite a bit of my shooting with ammo company reps. Trust me when I say there are no 5.7 rounds that will punch soft armor from a handgun.

P90 is another story,

 

[mongoose]

I get to do quite a bit of my shooting with ammo company reps. Trust me when I say there are no 5.7 rounds that will punch soft armor from a handgun.

P90 is another story,

Article shows and states otherwise. Not by much. article states the amor piecing bullet defeated the vest from a handgun.

 

[DoubleDuty]

John Reeves test showed it will pierce even level 3 depending on the bullet.

 

[Hoji]

Article shows and states otherwise. Not by much. article states the amor piecing bullet defeated the vest from a handgun.

Not in the outing I was invited to. Even the “penetrator “ ammo would not punch Level III a armor from a handgun. Just relating what I have seen firsthand, not trying to get into a pissing contest.

On a similar note, 5 or 6 .22 lr in the same spot will defeat Level III BA.

 

[mongoose]

Not in the outing I was invited to. Even the “penetrator “ ammo would not punch Level III a armor from a handgun. Just relating what I have seen firsthand, not trying to get into a pissing contest.

On a similar note, 5 or 6 .22 lr in the same spot will defeat Level III BA.

Not looking to get into a pissing match either. I don.t have a dog in this fight. I am interested if anyone has any experience with .22 mag defeating level III BA. I have heard it will, but I have no direct experience testing it.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Not looking to get into a pissing match either. I don.t have a dog in this fight. I am interested if anyone has any experience with .22 mag defeating level III BA. I have heard it will, but I have no direct experience testing it.

Velocity is what gets through armor... 22mag will not penetrate IIIa and definitely not III without prior damage to the armor (i.e. repeated hits at the same point while on the flat range)

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

 

[mongoose]

Velocity is what gets through armor... 22mag will not penetrate IIIa and definitely not III without prior damage to the armor (i.e. repeated hits at the same point while on the flat range)

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Thanks

 

[DoubleDuty]

Headshots will defeat it