any of you not full fledged republicans?

[Byrd666]

Damn. 46 pages of argument with a willfully ignorant Troll.

 

[Vaquero]

My principal is loyalty to the us federal government, not an unelected crown

That's some high protein bait right there.

 

[zackmars]

Damn. 46 pages of argument with a willfully ignorant Troll.

Listen, thanks to this thread, I'm getting real close to breaking even on my post/reaction ratio

 

[toddnjoyce]

My principal is loyalty to the us federal government, not an unelected crown

The social contract is exactly the opposite.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

That’s what politicians and communists consistently fûck up.

 

[Axxe55]

My principal is loyalty to the us federal government, not an unelected crown

I'm going to guess that taking history and civics classes were not your priority, correct?

 

[Axxe55]

The social contract is exactly the opposite.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

That’s what politicians and communists consistently fûck up.

Careful there @toddnjoyce, or the OP is going to label you a traitor!

 

[Axxe55]

Listen, thanks to this thread, I'm getting real close to breaking even on my post/reaction ratio

It's mildly entertaining. Like watching a guy dig a hole and wondering just how deep he can dig than hole!

 

[General Zod]

My principal is loyalty to the us federal government, not an unelected crown

As others have mentioned, the government is not who your loyalty should be to. So here's something that I'll bet nobody ever taught you:

Your rights do not derive from the government. The Constitution does not confer your rights upon you. No manmade entity has the ability to give you rights. They are not given to you by some "benevolent" government. They are not granted to you.

Read the Constitution. Nowhere does it say "the people shall have the right to..." Instead, it says things like "The right of the People to..." or "Congress shall pass no law regarding the right of the People..." Our rights are pre-existing. They are our natural, human rights. God-given, if you believe in God, and if not, then ours by the simple fact of being human beings. The Constitution is a list of restrictions on the government, forbidding it from interfering with our inherent rights. And since the ratification of the Constitution, politicians that run the government have been seeking ways to violate the Constitution and grab power over the people for themselves.

The US government was created by the people, as the servant of the people. The fact that politicians and bureaucrats now believe themselves to be the masters of the people is not something deserving of loyalty. You need to seriously examine your attitudes toward government and our fundamental rights. Go read the Federalist Papers and get yourself a good grounding on the reasons the Constitution was written the way it was, the debates that took place around it, and the intent of its writers. It'll do you a world of good and help keep your foot out of your mouth. It'll also likely light that spark in your head that'll show you why the Democrats are dead wrong about nearly everything.

 

[2ManyGuns]

If I am named traitor or outlaw, then I shall wear the label with pride. I am not loyal to the government/state, but to The Constitution and the Rights of the People.

 

[Wiliamr]

My principal is loyalty to the us federal government, not an unelected crown

You fail to follow the reason for my post. To quote your comment which sparked mine.

YOU. "I appreciate your civility and respect where you are coming from. What I will say is my main gripe with the confederacy is not “slavery” “racism” etc the typical left wing arguments. My main gripe is I find the mere act of secession to be treasonous and worthy of execution. "

MINE: You mean like, Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton and so on with regards to their treasonous secession from the King and England?

The point I was making has nothing to do with your loyalty.l It has to do with your finding the mere act of secession being treasonous and worthy of execution. I was pointing out that Hamilton, Jefferson, Washington and the others were secessionists, treasonous seditionists and to your way of thinking should have been executed.

 

[zackmars]

It's mildly entertaining. Like watching a guy dig a hole and wondering just how deep he can dig than hole!

Doesn't even realize he has a shovel, and the people who he's digging for have a backhoe ready to bury him once he gets deep enough

 

[Axxe55]

Doesn't even realize he has a shovel, and the people who he's digging for have a backhoe ready to bury him once he gets deep enough

I'm an antogonist in the fact that I'll keep throwing him more shovels just to see how deep that hole gets!

So far, that hole he's digging gets deeper and deeper by the post!

It's also somewhat enlightening to know what his generation is thinking and just how far off base they are.

 

[TX oddball]

The problem with making shit up is real soon you forget what you’ve made up.

Yeah, by page 6, he couldn't keep it together.

Classic, makes the same mistakes as others before him.

 

[fork3]

You fail to follow the reason for my post. To quote your comment which sparked mine.

YOU. "I appreciate your civility and respect where you are coming from. What I will say is my main gripe with the confederacy is not “slavery” “racism” etc the typical left wing arguments. My main gripe is I find the mere act of secession to be treasonous and worthy of execution. "

MINE: You mean like, Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton and so on with regards to their treasonous secession from the King and England?

The point I was making has nothing to do with your loyalty.l It has to do with your finding the mere act of secession being treasonous and worthy of execution. I was pointing out that Hamilton, Jefferson, Washington and the others were secessionists, treasonous seditionists and to your way of thinking should have been executed.

It was implied that I was talking about the american government. Obviously I don’t care either way about said principle in panama or burundi or whatever, I didn’t think I even needed to state that.

 

[Axxe55]

It was implied that I was talking about the american government. Obviously I don’t care either way about said principle in panama or burundi or whatever, I didn’t think I even needed to state that.

Would you apply that same level of treatment to Texas, and Texans?

 

[fork3]

Would you apply that same level of treatment to Texas, and Texans?

if there was a movement for travis county to secede from the rest of red texas, yes I would want to crush it.

 

[zackmars]

It was implied that I was talking about the american government. Obviously I don’t care either way about said principle in panama or burundi or whatever, I didn’t think I even needed to state that.

Thats not any better.

 

[2ManyGuns]

fork3, one is not loyal to the State, but to the precepts of its founding. Can you even tell us WHY you feel that way? Is the the state Allah? God? no it is not. The State designed by the founding father's was meant to promote freedom, to question, to explore, and even yes, REBEL against itself if it found itself repressing the individual and freedom. Today's government is very repressive.

 

[zackmars]

if there was a movement for travis county to secede from the rest of red texas, yes I would want to crush it.

Your opinion on that CHAZ/CHOP thing?

 

[fork3]

Your opinion on that CHAZ/CHOP thing?

crush it.