Is anyone else concerned about

[Big Green]

We fled Nam after 16 years and that turned out pretty good for me and my generation.

The situation in the ME cannot be fixed under our current ROE.

I would agree, except the world has changed a lot since then. China is a much greater power today. The ME is different compared to Nam. It's a region with a lot of bad players compared to just one country. And anyone of those bad players would use extreme measures without giving it a second thought. I'm not sure what the answer is. But pulling out isn't it.

Like Renegade said, situation is FUBAR’d with current ROE.

Go back to annilation and attrition. Hearts and mind stuff may be appropriate it some instances. We’ve been in Afghanistan nearly 2 DECADES. When does it end?

 

[ekim]

^^^^^^^
Sooner rather than later, not one more American military life is worth all of those countries, IMHO.

 

[busykngt]

What’s wrong with Trump’s logic for pulling out of Syria? Why did we go in?

Because Bashar al-Assad’s government was falling apart due to an internal rebellion / civil war. This created a vacuum in which ISIS moved in from Iraq, to take additional territory for the establishment of their Islamic Caliphate (they even issued passports in the name of the Caliphate). The land/territory the Caliphate once held in Syria, is no more.

And, unless the radical Islamists (remember, the term Obama wouldn’t use?) have enough people to attempt to re-populate it AND fight Bashar al-Assad’s government (has backed by Russia), they won’t be successful. So, I guess the key question is: has ISIS been sufficiently defeated in Iraq to keep that from happening? Apparently Donald Trump thinks so and Lindsey Graham doesn’t (reference his comment about fighting them in “their” backyard verses “ours”).

 

[Davetex]

It didn't help that Obozo armed ISIS in Syria.

 

[Younggun]

Trump was extremely critical of Obama for not listening to his generals when it came to Iraq. Now we are seeing what appears to be the same with Trump and Mattis.

Trump is stumbling lately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oldag]

You do know that's your opinion and doesn't carry much weight in the real world

But history backs up his opinion.

 

[Inspector43]

I think that every political platform since 1948 had a plank regarding "Peace in the Middle East". It is one of the gimmicks to distract the voters while the politicians focus on satisfying their contributors and lobbyists. The same is true for the other major issues. You can find them in every platform in one degree or another for decades. Abortion, health care, environment, infrastructure, crime, drugs, border security and immigration, on and on. It won't change until the mindset of "We The People" changes and we vote for educated adults.

 

[oldag]

We fled Nam after 16 years and that turned out pretty good for me and my generation.

The situation in the ME cannot be fixed under our current ROE.

Sadly, the administration never fought to win in Nam.

 

[oldag]

^^^^^^^
Sooner rather than later, not one more American military life is worth all of those countries, IMHO.

And ignoring such countries led to 9/11.

I would back overwhelming force to finish the job, then transition out.

 

[Renegade]

Sadly, the administration never fought to win in Nam.

We are not fighting to win in ME either, that was what my comment about ROE was.

 

[satx78247]

We are not fighting to win in ME either, that was what my comment about ROE was.

And to oldag,

Pardon me for pointing out that this is NOT the 1970s, when there were NO satellites that can be used to destroy enemy positions in RVN.
In 2018, concentrations of enemy fighters can easily be targeted for massive strikes from the air, that will make even the "shock & awe" strikes of Desert Storm look puny & ineffective by comparison.

yours, satx

 

[Darkpriest667]

Everyone keeps claiming there are other powers that will move in if we move out. GOOD let them! China seems to actually give a shit about winning wars and not screwing around trying to win hearts and minds. They have almost no terrorist attacks and they are literally interning every Muslim in their country.

 

[majormadmax]

The situation in the ME cannot be fixed under our current ROE.

Disagree, the "Iraqification" effort to put their security forces out front to defeat ISIS in that country worked out extremely well. US forces took more of an advisory and support role in the campaign as it should have been. It is why there is little news reporting on Iraq these days, the media doesn't like good news!

The US needed to mirror that strategy in Afghanistan and Syria, I know we (and NATO) have been trying to do so with the former for a long time now but it hasn't "caught on" as it did in Iraq. As for the latter, with the large Russian presence and support to Assad, I don't think it's even feasible but the mighty brains in the beltway should be able to come up with a plan that has some chance of working. Sitting on them for years until they gave up on any desire to fight (just like we did, and are still doing to some extent, in Bosnia and Kosovo) isn't going to work.

Declaring "victory" in Syria is just an excuse to leave, which is why Mattis is retiring (well, that plus the cancellation of South Korea military exercises, the deployment of troops to the southern U.S. border and the creation of a space force, amongst other things). Some speculate it has something to do with a possible bid for the presidency in 2020 (I highly doubt it), more likely he just had enough or was told it was time; but the only possible silver lining I can see from any of this would be if the retiring Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff--Gen Joseph Dunford--was appointed the next SecDef. Dunford’s term officially ends in October 2019; but his successor--Army Gen. Mark Milley--has already been announced which is much earlier than usual. Neither Mattis or Dunford supported Milley as the next CJCS, so that would be an indication that Dunford is not Trump's choice for SecDef.

All I know is that Mattis was highly regarded by those in the military, and many are concerned about his departure and possible replacement. Outside of Dunford, I cannot think of a good candidate; but I am sure Trump already has somebody in mind...

 

[oldag]

We are not fighting to win in ME either, that was what my comment about ROE was.

Agree if we go in, we should do the job right (referring to strategy set by the administration, not to the soldiers).

 

[oldag]

And to oldag,

Pardon me for pointing out that this is NOT the 1970s, when there were NO satellites that can be used to destroy enemy positions in RVN.
In 2018, concentrations of enemy fighters can easily be targeted for massive strikes from the air, that will make even the "shock & awe" strikes of Desert Storm look puny & ineffective by comparison.

yours, satx

Still always takes boots on the ground. Guerilla warfare is hard to stop with only air strikes.

 

[oldag]

Everyone keeps claiming there are other powers that will move in if we move out. GOOD let them! China seems to actually give a shit about winning wars and not screwing around trying to win hearts and minds. They have almost no terrorist attacks and they are literally interning every Muslim in their country.

You really want Iran to control more of the world?

 

[Renegade]

And to oldag,

Pardon me for pointing out that this is NOT the 1970s, when there were NO satellites that can be used to destroy enemy positions in RVN.
In 2018, concentrations of enemy fighters can easily be targeted for massive strikes from the air, that will make even the "shock & awe" strikes of Desert Storm look puny & ineffective by comparison.

yours, satx

NV did not hold enemy positions. They fought a guerrilla/insurgent war. VC lived in tunnels in the jungle. There was no possible way we could bomb them to victory.

ISIS does not concentrate enemy fighters in one place. They live among the population. That is why after 15+ years there are still hundreds of thousands of them. There was no possible way we could bomb them to victory.

If they would fight like imperial Japan or the Nazis, with uniforms, lines of demarcation and an Order Of battle, we could destroy them in a few weeks. They know that. Everyone knows that. Nobody will ever fight the US like that again.

They have been fighting for thousands of years, and will still be there after we have run out of bombs, planes and jet fuel.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Like Renegade said, situation is FUBAR’d with current ROE.

Having spent a large part of my military career in the CENTCOM AOR, what’s FUBAR is the western world thinking that what’s acceptable to us is what’s acceptable to them and that what works for us will work for them.

You can turn the whole place into a glass parking lot and whatever’s left will still be nomads living in the desert fighting over who gets to f* the goat next.

 

[Renegade]

Disagree, the "Iraqification" effort to put their security forces out front to defeat ISIS in that country worked out extremely well.

It works out well for the short time we are there. We cannot maintain that level of presence forever. When we leave, they return.

ISIS has not been defeated. They may no longer control turf, but they still exist an insurgent force.

 

[Renegade]

Having spent a large part of my military career in the CENTCOM AOR, what’s FUBAR is the western world thinking that what’s acceptable to us is what’s acceptable to them and that what works for us will work for them.

You can turn the whole place into a glass parking lot and whatever’s left will still be nomads living in the desert fighting over who gets to f* the goat next.

Fucking Exactly.