Its just a headlight bulb..right?

[hullhullhull]

I replaced the passenger side bulb on my wife's 2015 Grand Cherokee this summer before we moved to Texas. I was impressed how terrible it was to do. Had to watch a YouTube video just to make sure I wasn’t crazy.

 

[Greenzilla80]

My neighbors Audi required a full bumper removal to get to the headlight bulbs. Re. Diculous.

 

[GasGuzzler]

The '08 Chevy dually my uncle had required removing the tire, wheel liner, and front bumper to change a headlight bulb. I managed to swap it in 5 minutes by fishing it out with a chisel and nail puller.

Not so. You can change the bulbs from the top. Swapping the lamp takes more work but the bumper stays on.

Did you try treating the headlight cover first?

I have never seen this repair last more than a a year or two. I got some imported (cheap) headlights and just replaced them. Seal up the seams first or they'll fog.

Absolute truth. Starting about 20 years ago, more and more cars were designed to discourage the owner from doing any repairs or maintenance themselves, and some have even succeeded in making it flat-out impossible. This is a strategy to drive revenue back to the dealerships.

These are not poor design choices or engineers who don't know any better. This is a concerted effort to remove our ability to do the work ourselves.

Dealerships don't make big profits on stuff that's a PITA in many cases. Plus your statement infers the engineers and assemblers care about the dealer franchises or the technicians. They do not. Vehicles are made the way the are for government compliance and ease of assembly. That's it. Manufacturers care little about the individuals that work at the franchises.

Cadillac Northstar wants you lift the body up off the engine/trans frame to get trans out.

Actually many front wheel drive cars have to be lifted off the powertrain for major service. On a Northstar FWD, the exhaust crossover is under the transmission and engine. To get the oil pan off the engine, the transmission has to come out.

 

[BillM]

Not so. You can change the bulbs from the top. Swapping the lamp takes more work but the bumper stays on.

I have never seen this repair last more than a a year or two. I got some imported (cheap) headlights and just replaced them. Seal up the seams first or they'll fog.

Dealerships don't make big profits on stuff that's a PITA in many cases. Plus your statement infers the engineers and assemblers care about the dealer franchises or the technicians. They do not. Vehicles are made the way the are for government compliance and ease of assembly. That's it. Manufacturers care little about the individuals that work at the franchises.

Actually many front wheel drive cars have to be lifted off the powertrain for major service. On a Northstar FWD, the exhaust crossover is under the transmission and engine. To get the oil pan off the engine, the transmission has to come out.

I have removed the trans from countless fwd cars and only had to lift the body on the Northstar. What vehicles do you refer to? Not saying there aren't any, I've just never seen it.

 

[General Zod]

Dealerships don't make big profits on stuff that's a PITA in many cases. Plus your statement infers the engineers and assemblers care about the dealer franchises or the technicians. They do not. Vehicles are made the way the are for government compliance and ease of assembly. That's it. Manufacturers care little about the individuals that work at the franchises.

The engineers don't give a flying flip about anyone's profits and the assemblers don't give a damn about anything but getting the cars made and getting their paychecks. Putting words in my mouth is not a way to create a convincing argument, but if you're going to do it at least try to make it something halfway sensible instead of something insulting.

The car companies, though - the ones who employ the engineers and set policies on what will and won't be included in designs - they want to drive revenue to the dealerships and want to prevent the customer from ever being able to do any maintenance on their cars. Without the dealerships there's no avenue for the cars to be sold. Bring revenue to the dealerships and the dealerships can make more profits. It's that simple. If there was no profit in PITA repairs, then Jiffy Lube, Kwik Kar, Goodyear Tire and Auto, Christian Brothers, and a thousand other smaller garages would all be out of business. The dealerships want a slice of that market. The car companies want their vehicles sold through dealerships. That food chain is not hard to comprehend, and while the dealerships actually make most of their profits through financing cars, the revenue their maintenance operations pull is is not trivial.

It's not government standards that have caused them to mount the alternator below and behind the engine where it's inaccessible from above, and where once it's finally uninstalled it has to be maneuvered out of a tight space that requires precise turns at precise spots in order not to be wedged in. Government standards don't dictate the placement of belt pulleys, where the starter or distributor is mounted, or what hoses and wire harnesses should interfere with access to belt tensioners. And you're not going to convince me that "ease of assembly" comes into play when it's a freaking puzzle box under the hood.

 

[Brains]

Pontiac had a sunbird or sunfire years ago that to change the two back spark plugs on the V8, it was necessary to pull the engine. This usually happened once and then the firewall was modified.

Sunbird and Sunfire were 4 bangers, you're probably thinking of the Firebird (specifically the Formula and Trans Am). Not necessary at all to pull the motor, I've changed those plugs more times than I can remember. The back passenger one is the toughest, it's all up in the HVAC air box if you're trying to use a 3" extension. But, not tough at all if you have a 1 inch 3/8" drive extension and a swivel head ratchet.

 

[Army 1911]

I just looked it up. We're both wrong. 1977 Formula coupe had a 3.8 liter V6 which must have been what I was thinking about.

 

[robertc1024]

I thought you were talking about the Fiero - I've heard that you had to pull the engine to get all the plugs.

 

[BillM]

I thought you were talking about the Fiero - I've heard that you had to pull the engine to get all the plugs.

I pulled the trans out of one. It sucked.

 

[IXLR8]

I pulled the headlights out of my daughters 2005 Beetle. The first time required YouTube and courage. When I disassembled the back to get to the bulb their were clips really deep inside that took an extended 90 degree set of needle nose pliers to unhinge. As soon as I touched a wire, all of the insulation on the wires crumbled off.

Apparently Mercedes and their subsidiaries decided that automotive wiring insulation should be biodegradable. It did not last long in Texas heat.

The good news was all of the parts including the inside the headlight wiring harness were readily available online. The whole car was a money pit. I do not recommend them to anyone.

 

[TheDan]

The transmission in my wife’s old Camry is sealed for life, and the fluid is supposed to last the lifetime of the car. I suppose lifetime is defined as whenever the transmission finally craps out.

Lifetime means the duration of the warranty. Recommended service intervals are also based on what will get the car to end of it's warranty.

If you intend to keep a vehicle longer than the warranty, don't buy into the 10,000mi oil changes.

 

[BeatTheTunaUp]

Lifetime means the duration of the warranty. Recommended service intervals are also based on what will get the car to end of it's warranty.

If you intend to keep a vehicle longer than the warranty, don't buy into the 10,000mi oil changes.

For real. Trans fluid is at 100k by the oem and 50k by ZF the manufacturer. I'm about to spend $500 doing it myself at 75k.

 

[Grumps21]

Lifetime means the duration of the warranty. Recommended service intervals are also based on what will get the car to end of it's warranty.

If you intend to keep a vehicle longer than the warranty, don't buy into the 10,000mi oil changes.

I don’t agree with the 10k mile oil change intervals. I’ll never buy into that. It gets changed every 5k miles. I do 1k miles for each quart in the sump. Truck has 8qt sump so it gets changed every 8k miles, which is well before the oil life indicator goes off.

 

[BillM]

I have removed the trans from countless fwd cars and only had to lift the body on the Northstar. What vehicles do you refer to? Not saying there aren't any, I've just never seen it.

Well I don't really need to know.

 

[BillM]

The transmission in my wife’s old Camry is sealed for life, and the fluid is supposed to last the lifetime of the car. I suppose lifetime is defined as whenever the transmission finally craps out. I did find a procedure to do it, but it’s rather involved and not something I wanted to tackle so I had the dealer do it at 150k miles. Damn near the same PITA factor on my F150. They did away with the transmission dipstick, so there’s no easy way to check the level or fill it without a lift.

There has to be a way to drain it and refill it.

 

[GasGuzzler]

The engineers don't give a flying flip about anyone's profits and the assemblers don't give a damn about anything but getting the cars made and getting their paychecks. Putting words in my mouth is not a way to create a convincing argument, but if you're going to do it at least try to make it something halfway sensible instead of something insulting.

The car companies, though - the ones who employ the engineers and set policies on what will and won't be included in designs - they want to drive revenue to the dealerships and want to prevent the customer from ever being able to do any maintenance on their cars. Without the dealerships there's no avenue for the cars to be sold. Bring revenue to the dealerships and the dealerships can make more profits. It's that simple. If there was no profit in PITA repairs, then Jiffy Lube, Kwik Kar, Goodyear Tire and Auto, Christian Brothers, and a thousand other smaller garages would all be out of business. The dealerships want a slice of that market. The car companies want their vehicles sold through dealerships. That food chain is not hard to comprehend, and while the dealerships actually make most of their profits through financing cars, the revenue their maintenance operations pull is is not trivial.

It's not government standards that have caused them to mount the alternator below and behind the engine where it's inaccessible from above, and where once it's finally uninstalled it has to be maneuvered out of a tight space that requires precise turns at precise spots in order not to be wedged in. Government standards don't dictate the placement of belt pulleys, where the starter or distributor is mounted, or what hoses and wire harnesses should interfere with access to belt tensioners. And you're not going to convince me that "ease of assembly" comes into play when it's a freaking puzzle box under the hood.

I did not put words in your mouth. I stated what your comments inferred which is a matter of opinion.

The car companies do not care about the dealerships in the least. The vast majority of dealerships are privately owned franchises. The car companies do not care who works on the cars, how much they are paid, or if repairs are even made. Jiffy Lube, Kwik Kar, Goodyear Tire and Auto, Christian Brothers do not do the type of work I described. Even though the dealer owners do want a slice of the PITA repair market, the dealers have nothing to do with how the vehicles are designed and built so what the dealers want is moot. Maintenance is nearly gone from the industry and most maintenance done at the dealer is a loss or break even proposition to stay competitive price-wise. There is a difference between maintenance and repair and unfortunately a headlight bulb is now the former, not the later like it was 30 years ago.

The entire structure of the vehicle is designed around cost savings and government crash standards. Where the stuff lands after that is of no concern to the design engineers, one of which has told me to my face that serviceability is not even a minute consideration at all to design.

Sunbird and Sunfire were 4 bangers, you're probably thinking of the Firebird (specifically the Formula and Trans Am). Not necessary at all to pull the motor, I've changed those plugs more times than I can remember. The back passenger one is the toughest, it's all up in the HVAC air box if you're trying to use a 3" extension. But, not tough at all if you have a 1 inch 3/8" drive extension and a swivel head ratchet.

Actually the '70's version of the Sunfire did in fact have a "corporate" (Chevy) 267 V8 as an option. Anyway, it was the Pontiac version of the Chevy Monza and it required removing the passenger motor mount bolt and lifting the engine at an angle to change two spark plugs. My older cousin had a V8 Monza.

 

[GasGuzzler]

I have removed the trans from countless fwd cars and only had to lift the body on the Northstar. What vehicles do you refer to? Not saying there aren't any, I've just never seen it.

I have never had to drop the entire powertrain on a N*/4T80E for a trans R&R. Hang the engine, pull the cradle, pull the trans. I was making the point that most major powertrain repairs are easier dropped out the bottom and specifically on the N*, the trans has to come out just to get the oil pan off the engine.

 

[BillM]

I have never had to drop the entire powertrain on a N*/4T80E for a trans R&R. Hang the engine, pull the cradle, pull the trans. I was making the point that most major powertrain repairs are easier dropped out the bottom and specifically on the N*, the trans has to come out just to get the oil pan off the engine.

Unfortunately the dealership did not have the equipment to support the engine with the frame off. Hard to believe but true. I only did three and told them I didn't want to work on anymore because it sucked and the time paid was not worth it. Also the trans jack they had was dangerous. I worked at 3 dealerships over the years and their trans equipment all sucked.

 

[BillM]

Actually the '70's version of the Sunfire did in fact have a "corporate" (Chevy) 267 V8 as an option. Anyway, it was the Pontiac version of the Chevy Monza and it required removing the passenger motor mount bolt and lifting the engine at an angle to change two spark plugs. My older cousin had a V8 Monza.

I recall some small GM car from back in the day that had a 250 or 350 trans in it. On that car on the passenger side of the bellhousing they had cast a depression or flat spot into the bell so you could get to one of the upper bell bolts. I can't believe they did something to make the car easier to work on.

 

[General Zod]

I did not put words in your mouth. I stated what your comments inferred which is a matter of opinion.

Bullshit. You completely changed the focus of my comment so you could more easily argue against it. If that's "your opinion" of what I said, I suggest a remedial reading course so you can improve your comprehension.

The car companies do not care about the dealerships in the least. The vast majority of dealerships are privately owned franchises.

I never said the dealerships weren't franchises. I made the mistake of working at an AutoNation dealership years ago. I'm aware of how the relationship works, as well as the push from both the dealership and the manufacturer to drive any and all maintenance and repair back through their own doors. Whether it's for the revenue from repairs (especially insurance claims) or simply to get the car owner to walk through the showroom every time something needs to be fixed, both the dealers and the manufacturers have an interest in making maintenance and repair happen at the dealership and only at the dealership.

And as I stated, without the dealerships, there is nobody to sell the cars and the manufacturers will go bankrupt. Every penny of profit the dealerships can wring out, they will, and the way cars are designed now even simple maintenance chores require a fully equipped garage which really dovetails nicely into that strategy. But you claim the car manufacturers have no interest in driving that revenue into the dealerships? The way the cars are built today disagrees with your claims.

The entire structure of the vehicle is designed around cost savings and government crash standards. Where the stuff lands after that is of no concern to the design engineers, one of which has told me to my face that serviceability is not even a minute consideration at all to design.

Then he lied to your face, or he's a figment of your imagination. Or maybe you can tell me what crash standard or cost savings determines that the alternator must be inaccessible, or that the oil filter must require a specialized wrench that's not generally available to the public, or that the headlight bulbs must be impossible to change out without removing the bumper. The need for specialized tools, or to remove and reinstall government mandated safety devices, really flies in the face of your "gotta meet crash standards" argument.