Those folks are addressed separately.
Utah CFP and Texas LTC Reciprocity and FFL Transfers
- Thread starter oldwisemonk
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Those folks are addressed separately.
My meme ^^ was of Kyle Rittenhouse, incase anyone missed the point, who 'volunteered' to go help in Kenosha.
Though tangential to this discussion; I wonder if the definition of 'volunteer' includes the random citizen out there 'providing services for the benefit of the general public'.
And cheers to Kyle.
You are asking the wrong question. .05 doesn’t apply to license holders and any license holder can carry beyond a sign and still avail themselves of a DTP.
Enforcement is what folks need to understand. The sign holder only has one enforceable option: tell a license holder to leave and, if the license holder does not, have the individual trespassed by an LEO, since that’s the person who can issue the citation.
As for permitless carry, .06/.07 signs don’t apply and the code still requires the “failed to depart” component for 30.05.
People spend too much time reading the sign and not enough time reading the code; all the signs do is announce there’s a different part of the code that can be triggered if you’re trespassed and fail to leave.
Pablum question, sorry; this verbiage is unknown to this new Texan.
I know what 'trespass' means, but how is a 'person' trespassed ?
General Zod
TGT Addict
By having a law enforcement officer charge them with it and remove them from the property.
"Trespassed" = Charged with trespassing.
Delightful linguistic differences. Thanks
"Trespassed" = Charged with trespassing.
Delightful linguistic differences. Thanks
Remember, you’re not trespassing until you’re told to leave and instead stay. Use of force to remove a trespasser isn’t justifiable, so the business has to complain to a cop while you’re physically present.
Maybe I didn't ask the question right, can a volunteer ems that holds a LTC cross a 06/07 sign if that ems is not responding to an emergency and is carrying either concealed or open? Does the entry into a posted situation require the ems being there to render medical aid? How about going into a 50% bar to get a beer? Are there specific requirements that the ems must meet beyond just having a so called get out of jail free volunteer ems card. I sure would hate to argue before a judge that I went into a posted place to shop and used my volunteer ems card as a defense to prosecution. I ask because I don't know the answer and maybe someone smarter does.
Yes.
The volunteer thing makes 46.02/46.03 nonapplicable. 06/07 have their own language that provides a DTP.
Oddly an unlicensed VESP has less restrictions than a licensed First responder. 06 as example, (f) vs (f-1):
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.
(f-1) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is a first responder, as defined by Section 46.01, who:
(1) holds an unexpired certificate of completion under Section 411.1883, Government Code, at the time of engaging in the applicable conduct;
(2) was engaged in the actual discharge of the first responder's duties while carrying the handgun; and
(3) was employed or supervised by a municipality or county to which Chapter 179, Local Government Code, applies.
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It says what it says:
(18) "Volunteer emergency services personnel" includes a volunteer firefighter, an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code, and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for the benefit of the general public during emergency situations. The term does not include a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, as those terms are defined by Section 1701.001, Occupations Code, who is performing law enforcement duties.
No certification of anything is required. It is whether you actually do something that counts.
Jokes aside, what about someone who really does volunteer and provides services for the benefit of the general public during emergency situations. Red Cross? Blood donor? First Aid? SAR? Texas Baptist Men? I can think of dozens of ways you could legitimately meet the definition.
<>
Welcome to the South, Texas, & TGT !
”Reciprocity” is complex b/c of the great differences in details in each State.
A Texas ‘CL’’ has great reciprocity. Many of us keep several different state permits active. It is one of the best ID’s to carry, as it immediately tells any LEO that the bearer is not a criminal. This can be important, even when no weapon is involved.
You need to learn TExas’ unique & byzantine restrictions and signage system immediately.
Join the TSRA, our NRA affiliate, even if not a NRA member.
leVieux
<>
General Zod
TGT Addict
"Unique and byzantine" explained.
30.06 signs ban licensed concealed carry and only licensed concealed carry. Wording must be in accordance with the law (easy to look up), letters must be 1" tall and it must be posted in clear view at the entrance.
30.07 signs ban licensed open carry and only licensed open carry. You can carry concealed right past 'em. Wording must be in accordance with the law (easy to look up), letters must be 1" tall and it must be posted in clear view at the entrance.
The above signs cannot be combined in any way, wording-wise. There is no single sign that prohibits both concealed and open carry with a license. If the property owner wishes to prohibit both, they need to post both signs. Non-compliant signage can be ignored.
30.05 (unlicensed carry) is nebulous and confusing, and may or may not be restricted by just about any signage except 30.05 and 30.06. Just conceal. Better yet, just get your LTC and don't worry about all the random signs.
If you're carrying in any way and are asked verbally to leave because you're carrying, that's effective legal notice and you're trespassing if you stay.
Don't carry into a bar with a 51% sign posted. Once again, this must be posted at the entrance, and has "51%" in large letters with the text of the sign superimposed over it. Bars that derive more than 50% of their revenue from alcohol sales are prohibited locations for carrying firearms.
Don't carry into a courthouse, polling place, racetrack, public K-12 school, or hospital.
Doesn't seem all that confusing...
Are you a volunteer emergency services person(nel)?
YES.
Ok you have a defense to prosecution. Case dismissed.
EMS with a LTC ARE theoretically violating 30.06/7 if you believe that if you have one you must always be carrying under its authority. Which kind of begs the question why the statute states "carrying under authority of" if that is supposedly automatic. It really doesn't bother me enough to worry about. If a location has a 30.06 sign and I want to still carry, I will and in the very unlikely event that I am discovered, of course I will leave. If someone in authority wants to push the matter further, I will use the Defense of being a volunteer emergency response provider if I get a ticket.
Yes. If they have a LTC.
No, Peace Officers aren't carrying a handgun via Chapter 411, Sub-chapter H. also Texas CCP Article. 2.1305. CARRYING WEAPON ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) An establishment serving the public may not prohibit or otherwise restrict a peace officer or special investigator from carrying on the establishment's premises a weapon that the peace officer or special investigator is otherwise authorized to carry, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon.
So anyone with a LTC can claim to be a volunteer emergency service personnel and cross 30/06/07 signs with a defense to prosecution, you claim. I would find that may not fly in court but I don't plan on being the test case.
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