Utah CFP and Texas LTC Reciprocity and FFL Transfers

[General Zod]

Did we determine the text was also too small here, thus making it not legally binding? Hah. But really.

Text has to be no less than 1" tall, and the wording has to be correct in English and in Spanish. The law was written that way to make the burden fall on the property owner who wishes to ban legal carry, not on the legal carrier.

They conveniently forgot that part when writing the "unlicensed carry" law.

 

[Steve In Texas]

Texas while generally assumed to be firearms friendly has a very confusing way of going about it. The 06 07 signs require minimum letter sizes and content to be legal. I speak with attorneys and get different interpretations so we are with confused company.

 

[Renegade]

What ground was lost?
Ah - you answered above.
Can you point to where I can read further on it? I'm guessing it would take you a long time to describe the mess -

dont remember it all, we did discuss in at time PLC was passed.

Biggest issue was non handgun carry was generally not addressed prior to PLC, when PLC was passed instead of it only applying to handguns (and leaving non handgun carry as it was), they regulated "firearms" which then included longguns.

 

[Renegade]

Texas while generally assumed to be firearms friendly has a very confusing way of going about it. The 06 07 signs require a minimum letter sizes and content to be legal. I speak with attorneys and get different interpretations so we are with confused company.

Lot of answers for that-

1) Was to comply with existing Case Law from Criminal trespass.
2) They made it big and wordy to discourage signs
3) Big and wordy make it easy for LTC to see them.

 

[toddnjoyce]

So, if my license is not in my possession but I am carrying, then I am not subject to 06/07 signage but need to be mindful of 05, correct?

Essentially correct; realize there are also some pretty ironclad defenses to prosecution available to the license holder. First is if you’re asked to leave and do so, that’s a defense. Second, if you fit the extremely, generously vague definition of “volunteer emergency response personnel”, that gives you another DTP.

Earlier this year, I started a thread on what the actual statistics compiled by DPS says. In all their history, I don’t recall ever seeing a 30.06 conviction. The countable-on-one-hand convictions for 30.07 were all jackasses given verbal warning to leave and failed to do so.

Personally, I don’t get worked up over a 30.05/,06/.07 sign; open carry isn’t the cross I’m going to die on, neither is proving a point about whether I’m going to hang around after an employee asks me to leave and no, that employee can’t detain you unless they’re an LEO in their department’s jurisdiction.

I’ve told this story a few times….no shit, there I was in the elevator at Carlsbad Caverns National Park, chatting with the LEO NPS Ranger when I remembered I was carrying an EDC X-9 under my shirt. Talked with him all the way down, passed a few of his coworkers touring the cavern and walking out the entrance ramp and no one was any wiser that I just broken the law. Stuff happens, but even people who should be looking for this stuff aren’t looking all that hard.

 

[Vaquero]

So getting back to this (Only because in 2 weeks, 20 of us will be at Florida's and this is what they have posted also, albeit an invalid one)


View attachment 413445

To walk through the door 'legally' - If we're LTC, then we can either
1. Conceal carry, or,
2. Leave our LTC card in the truck and open carry.

Yes? No?

****
@oldwisemonk : now you see why I just do what I do and not worry one way or the other.

Or conceal carry w/o a license.

 

[Renegade]

Personally, I don’t get worked up over a 30.05/,06/.07 sign; open carry isn’t the cross I’m going to die on, neither is proving a point about whether I’m going to hang around after an employee asks me to leave and no, that employee can’t detain you unless they’re an LEO in their department’s jurisdiction.

Yep

About the only way you can get an 05/06/07 cite is if an LEO is literally right there at time you are observed. Everyone else catches you, just skidaddle.

 

[oldwisemonk]

Personally, I don’t get worked up over a 30.05/,06/.07 sign; open carry isn’t the cross I’m going to die on, neither is proving a point about whether I’m going to hang around after an employee asks me to leave and no, that employee can’t detain you unless they’re an LEO in their department’s jurisdiction.

This is where I'm at after all this. It was dizzying for a minute, and now ... much clearer.

And related to your note about detaining ... when I was a security guard, the company was very clear about when we could and could not detain people, and most of the time the answer was that we could not. Of all the training, they were extra clear about that ... probably because of lawsuits.

 

[MountainGirl]

BTW, I just want to thank y'all for the discussion in this thread. It makes me feel like my confusion, in general, wasn't completely unwarranted. I've learned a ton today.

I'm learning a lot, too.
Like...stfu, and skidaddle!

 

[toddnjoyce]

… the company was very clear about when we could and could not detain people, and most of the time the answer was that we could not. Of all the training, they were extra clear about that ... probably because of lawsuits.

In Texas, likely less about lawsuit and more about use of force. You can use all the force you want to throw someone out, but you can’t keep them from leaving.

 

[Otto_Mation]

I didn't see where it was mentioned, so if it was I apologize but another reason to get a Texas LTC is it will allow you to carry in other states that we have reciprocity with that do not have constitutional carry.

 

[General Zod]

I didn't see where it was mentioned, so if it was I apologize but another reason to get a Texas LTC is it will allow you to carry in other states that we have reciprocity with that do not have constitutional carry.

You're right - all of the benefits mentioned so far were just within the borders of Texas. Reciprocity is a major benefit, and only comes with a license.

 

[oldwisemonk]

I didn't see where it was mentioned, so if it was I apologize but another reason to get a Texas LTC is it will allow you to carry in other states that we have reciprocity with that do not have constitutional carry.

This is a great point. I haven't actually checked to see if Texas LTC gets me any states that Utah CFP doesn't.

 

[Steve In Texas]

This is a great point. I haven't actually checked to see if Texas LTC gets me any states that Utah CFP doesn't.

Assuming you have a Utah Non-Resident USA Carry says:

Texas Resident shows:

So it depends a bit on where you go.

Make your own maps at:

Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity Maps (Updated April 2024)

Our Concealed Carry Reciprocity Maps are the most up-to-date CCW maps available. View which states accept your concealed carry permits. Great for traveling.

www.usacarry.com

 

[oldwisemonk]

Assuming you have a Utah Non-Resident USA Carry says:
View attachment 413510

Texas Resident shows:
View attachment 413511

So it depends a bit on where you go.

Make your own maps at:

Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity Maps (Updated April 2024)

Our Concealed Carry Reciprocity Maps are the most up-to-date CCW maps available. View which states accept your concealed carry permits. Great for traveling.

www.usacarry.com

Looks like the only 1-up Utah has is Washington.

 

[MountainGirl]

Looks like the only 1-up Utah has is Washington.

And you dont wanna go there anyway so that works out.

 

[Otto_Mation]

Yep and Texas 6-up's Utah with MI, PA, FL. CO, NM and SC

 

[oldwisemonk]

Yep and Texas 5-up's Utah with PA, FL. CO, NM and SC

Kinda clinches the deal.

 

[MountainGirl]

Yep and Texas 5-up's Utah with PA, FL. CO, NM and SC

And MI - but he doesn't wanna go to Michigan either, so all good.

 

[Otto_Mation]

And MI - but he doesn't wanna go to Michigan either, so all good.

Corrected my post. Thank you.