Ukraine invasion

[cycleguy2300]

Do your homework. The Keystone pipeline was only intended to EXPORT oil and would not have affected US oil availability or gas prices. Do you live under a rock?

Yeah,
Export from Canada and import to the USA...
Who lives under the rock?

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[Darqhelmet]

We can put a dozen torpedoes into a boomer before it can even open its missile doors. In a war environment like this, as soon as it starts to surface it is destroyed.

We aren’t at war with anyone. Us sinking a sub for surfacing though. That puts us at war. And if you’re saying it’s a first strike and nuclear we are all fucked even if you are right and we sink them all before they launch.

I’m not sure what magical world you live in where we are invincible and this isn’t a real threat, but dudes living in caves and wearing jelly sandals gave us hell for 20 years. Before that little men in tunnels with grass hats did the same.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Just like the good old days of hunter and hunted submarine tactics, they'll launch their nukes and then be destroyed by an attack submarine. The same will happen to our boats. Both countries and their proxies will get nuked and there will be no winners. I don't think anyone wants this, not even Putin.

God I hope not.

 

[RedArmy]

Russian KA-52 brought down by Ukraine forces.

 

[Renegade]

Just like the good old days of hunter and hunted submarine tactics, they'll launch their nukes and then be destroyed by an attack submarine. The same will happen to our boats. Both countries and their proxies will get nuked and there will be no winners. I don't think anyone wants this not even Putin.

No that was just TV/book bullshit.

They will not get a shot off. Land based stuff, sure we have no defense for that. But subs are not good first strike weapons.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Do you really believe semiconductors are the only difference between us and Chad? Seriously?

How many people have cash? Know where the water and food comes from? Shit look at us when the power went out for a few days. No chips no nothing.

 

[seeker_two]

The instant they go to launch depth they will be destroyed.

But only if the order is given....I don't see that order coming from the Sniffer-In-Chief or General Miley Cyrus....

 

[cycleguy2300]

who gives a shit about what happens in ukraine, let themselves sort it out.

You said that already... buzz off if you dot have anything new or meaningful to add.

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[Renegade]

We aren’t at war with anyone. Us sinking a sub for surfacing though. That puts us at war. And if you’re saying it’s a first strike and nuclear we are all fucked even if you are right and we sink them all before they launch.

We are on war alert. A boomer going to launch depth is an act of war. It will be destroyed.

I’m not sure what magical world you live in where we are invincible and this isn’t a real threat, but dudes living in caves and wearing jelly sandals gave us hell for 20 years. Before that little men in tunnels with grass hats did the same.

Three things we have always owned, the night, the ocean, and space (and for last 40 years air). It is our ground game that sucks.

 

[oldag]

While it’s true they have stolen from us and does save them some development time, stealing some plans isn’t the same as being able to actually fully replicate it.

Their stealth fighter is a good example of this. From what I’ve seen it is far behind what we have in terms of stealth tech, despite being based on what they’ve stolen from us. Also, the engines are garbage, iirc. An old Russian design.


Edited to clarify.


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Interesting.

I had read their fighter was very capable.

 

[RedArmy]

Another one down, pilot ejected and was captured. Ukraine is putting up a fight, just not sure how much longer they can hold out.

 

[oldag]

I was pondering this last night. Its a huge "what if" and maybe wrong but


What if the Ukranians surrender militarily, then begin waging guerilla warfare against the Russians using smuggled weapons. Direct military action - the Ukranians simply don't have the men or the guns to take on Russia and win, if Russia is dead set on taking Ukraine unless NATO (meaning US) intervenes and allows this shit to escalate beyond Ukraine.

Could / would it stave off a greater conflict and larger loss of life and destruction of infrastructure if they go the guerilla route, vs military v military battles? I don't know - I could see it going either way - but I don't think Russia wants to destroy a lot of infrastructure, if they're bent on taking Ukraine and repatriating it into the Russian Federation.

As far as captured American equipment taken from the battlefield, I would suspect that some of the stuff left in Afg has likely already made its way to Russia or Russian engineers for study and reverse engineering of, along with China.

Anyone thinking Russia will be easy to defeat because of our superior tech could be playing a dangerous game of chicken. And Putin has all but said that if we retaliate against Russia, we're going to eat nukes. Biden doesn't have the balls to order a launch, and even if he did, the fucking POS Marxist Chairman of the Joint Chiefs has already pledged to alert China of American aggression, its not a stretch to think he'd call ol' Putin and say hi as well.

I'm not positive that we'd even retaliate if Russia hit us with nukes. The Biden crime syndicate has no love of America, and he and his old boss were doing their best to undermine our national security and economic interests for 8 years, and he's taken that torch back up. Mean tweeting orange man avoided new wars for 4 years, and either other world leaders respected him, or feared he was deranged enough that they weren't pondering direct attacks. Want to bet if there are attack plans being readied by China, Russia, North Korea or even Iran?

We're focusing in on Ukraine right now, Taiwan is going to get snatched up by China any day (and I don't think we're going to defend them) - the middle east still isn't stable, so who is to say that Iran doesn't capitalize on the instability and attention in Europe to make moves, or Syria, or even the left overs of ISIS / Al Queda. Maybe Pakistan makes moves against India.

Playing into Putin's hands with this attitude.

Russia will not attack the US with nukes.

 

[popper]

Kyiv is NOT in the eastern region. Basically Putin is willing to kill off the Ukraine population to get good Black sea ports.

 

[oldag]

This is an under appreciated aspect of IP theft. If Russia or China was able to produce a suitable enough counterfeit product, there would be a lot more countries outside their spheres of influence that would be buying a near-similar level product at a discounted price.

Fact is there’s a reason most countries purchase North America, Western European, or Brazilian airliners…those are the only countries most of the world has faith in to deliver a safe and reliable airliner, despite Chinese/Russian attempts to produce essentially a counterfeit. And that’s in spite of Boeing’s fûckups with the Max and 787.

The F35 design is now how old?

There is no state of the art high tech in the F35. Do not underestimate the eastern Asian's ability to replicate. On the commercial front, the Japanese were masters of this until their own engineering caught up with ours.

 

[cycleguy2300]

There is just about zero modern US tech in Ukraine right now. And even less US strategy or OOB. Nothing to be learned.

True NATO et al has little there in the way of support, but he can learn from our reaction and we can observe their actions.

If I pick someone out of a crowd and start fighting and everyone else backs up and seems scared, it tells me they are easy victims too and I might try it again...

What ever happens, president potato will make it worse. Putin is smart, calculating and at the top of his game. Biden in his prime was an idiot, liar and a fool and wouldn't have held a candle to Putin's skill as a politician.

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[Renegade]

Playing into Putin's hands with this attitude.

Russia will not attack the US with nukes.

Of course not

IMO this is already over. Nobody is coming to Ukraine defense, Putin will take most of the rest of the country, and WestEuro will deal with millions of refugees. Germany will get cold and the pipeline will go live.

 

[oldag]

Of course not

IMO this is already over. Nobody is coming to Ukraine defense, Putin will take most of the rest of the country, and WestEuro will deal with millions of refugees. Germany will get cold and the pipeline will go live.

Yep.

And then Putin will plan his next invasion.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I wonder if Putin is using Ukraine as a live-fire exercise for the Russian military. It gives their soldiers combat experience without having to deploy too far away…

Most of these type things are pretty much that. The difference is intent to hold land; it’s super easy for the big kid on the block to take the land, much harder to hold, especially if the population doesn’t want to be a part of the invading country. Look at the outcomes in Afg and Iraq.

…it tests Russian equipment against all the US and NATO weapons and technology.….

Nowhere near all the US and NATO weapons/tech are in, nor will be implemented doing something in Ukraine.

 

[Wiliamr]

Current DEFOCN level is 3 (1 being total peace, 5 being war.)

This is like a caution sign. No one in the US government has the stones to go to 4 or 5. Biden is not going to ask for the football key, Harris.... well nothing there. Pelosi is not going to make a decision so. We wait.

Texas is a major target area. Major ports, Houston, Corpus. Major military installations. Fort Hood, Fort Bliss, Fort Sam, The B2 base at Dyess. B 52 at Barksdale in Louisiana makes this area a perfect point for direct strike and or EMP. Then there are the refineriers and strategic oil storage in salt domes here.

Not trying be a sky is falling person, but most Texans have no clue about the strategic value of Texas

 

[Tnhawk]

Yep.

And then Putin will plan his next invasion.

Ukraine is not the goal for Putin, it's only a small step.