Shooting at Empire State Building

[matefrio]

Shooter enters the frame behind the plants upper left of the frame. If you watch the NYPD officer steps into his partners crossfire for a bit.

 

[TheRealT-Dawg]

Here's a case where gun control would actually have prevented the shooting of innocents: by disarming the poorly trained and anti-gun NYPD.

isn't it ironic how Departments (certain city police, ATF, etc) that are pro gun-control... yet they use guns themselves??? even worse, they neglect how to run them properly??? just go to show you, "gun education > gun control"

 

[Moby]

Is this accurate?


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Yes sir, the 9 people injured were shot by cops.

 

[Bithabus]

isn't it ironic how Departments (certain city police, ATF, etc) that are pro gun-control... yet they use guns themselves??? even worse, they neglect how to run them properly??? just go to show you, "gun education > gun control"

In NYC only the Police are professional enough to carry guns. They have the extensive training and expertise that we ordinary citizens lack.

 

[hkusp1]

What like how to accidentally shoot 9 people? Is that a specific course?

 

[matefrio]

It's easy being an arm chair quarter back. From what I can see, and I could be wrong, they used active shooter tactics when this wasn't an active shooter.

 

[hkusp1]

The video is rough but it looked like they tried to rush the guy and got caught and just started spraying.

 

[GaryH]

....but part of me feels they deserve it by tolerating Bloomberg and his gun politics.....

Really?

 

[BrenGunner]

As I posted on another forum:
From what I've gathered
16 shots fired
10 GSW's on Johnson

3 bystanders took direct shots
Other 6 took shrapnel/fragments from
Bullets impacting concrete etc.

Not agreeing or disagreeing on the shoot but IMO it's not right keep saying the cops shot 9 people.

 

[Domineaux]

As I posted on another forum:
From what I've gathered
16 shots fired
10 GSW's on Johnson

3 bystanders took direct shots
Other 6 took shrapnel/fragments from
Bullets impacting concrete etc.

Not agreeing or disagreeing on the shoot but IMO it's not right keep saying the cops shot 9 people.

The 10 wounds Johnson has included 7 entry and 3 exit wounds from what I have read..just to be clear.
Glad to hear many of the bystander wounds are from fragments of bullets and/or concrete though.

 

[matefrio]

As I posted on another forum:
From what I've gathered
16 shots fired
10 GSW's on Johnson

3 bystanders took direct shots
Other 6 took shrapnel/fragments from
Bullets impacting concrete etc.

Not agreeing or disagreeing on the shoot but IMO it's not right keep saying the cops shot 9 people.

IF a CHL holder had that result what would they have said?

 

[orbitup]

IF a CHL holder had that result what would they have said?

Good point!

There would be lawmakers trying to deny our rights.

 

[cazador1022]

Looks like they were only 6 ft away from eachother

 

[TexasRedneck]

Guys....much as I hate NYC gun policies, let's not let that color our thoughts on this. You have a situation in which a shooter has just shot someone, and is leaving the area. You don't know if he's relocating to reload, to shoot others, or what - all you know is that he's armed and has been willing to kill for no apparent reason.

Sorry....but I don't think there's a damned thing they did wrong here. I regret that some rounds went errant - regret the injuries/death - but in my view, there was really very little choice at the point that he turned their direction.

Reverse the roles....put yourself in the shoes of those cops. I would have pulled the trigger - would you?

 

[Dawico]

I am curious as to the hit ratio of each cop. One looks like he is 6-8' away and the other is much further as he backs away. The officer backing away is doing the right thing so I am curious if he is a better shot also. He seems to have better training.

 

[Dawico]

Guys....much as I hate NYC gun policies, let's not let that color our thoughts on this. You have a situation in which a shooter has just shot someone, and is leaving the area. You don't know if he's relocating to reload, to shoot others, or what - all you know is that he's armed and has been willing to kill for no apparent reason.

Sorry....but I don't think there's a damned thing they did wrong here. I regret that some rounds went errant - regret the injuries/death - but in my view, there was really very little choice at the point that he turned their direction.

Reverse the roles....put yourself in the shoes of those cops. I would have pulled the trigger - would you?

I totally agree. This doesn't have anything to do with Bloomberg and his policies. Shooters miss from short distances all the time. The officers could have better training but that problem isn't relegated to just NYC.

 

[Younggun]

Guys....much as I hate NYC gun policies, let's not let that color our thoughts on this. You have a situation in which a shooter has just shot someone, and is leaving the area. You don't know if he's relocating to reload, to shoot others, or what - all you know is that he's armed and has been willing to kill for no apparent reason.

Sorry....but I don't think there's a damned thing they did wrong here. I regret that some rounds went errant - regret the injuries/death - but in my view, there was really very little choice at the point that he turned their direction.

Reverse the roles....put yourself in the shoes of those cops. I would have pulled the trigger - would you?

I agree that this is unrelated to NYC gun policy, however I also know the consequences a CHL holder would face if they had fired the shots.

Should law enforcement not also be held accountable for where there rounds go after leaving the barrel.

In the situation they were not being attacked out of the blue, they knew the man was armed and that the confrontation would be taking place on a crowded street. We are responsible for being proficient enough to handle our firearms and they should have the same level of responsibility.

Who knows if one of the cops hit their mark every time and the other hit only bystanders or if it was a mix of the two, but someone failed in their responsibilities at some point.

JMO.


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[TexasRedneck]

.....and you miss MY point - that given the scenario, the officers took a reasonable level of action.....just as *I* would find serving on a jury whereby a citizen might be facing charges on a similar situation - that is, that the actions of the perpetrator created the situation, and as such, ALL consequences fall to HIM - not the person acting to stop him.

 

[thack1963]

Interesting points, but every class I have ever read about or taken points out your responsible for every round you fire. The suspect does not even move much, the Officers get an epic fail in my book. One officer steps in front of the other as they approach the suspect? How hard is it to yell, you go left, or you go right? Even if you assume the suspect is 10 feet away, looks closer, any miss is a fail at that distance.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Guess we're going to agree to disagree on this one. I've been in "live fire", and all the niceties go out the window at that point, and training/instinct take over. Give the other office credit for seeing his partner cross into the fire line and holding - and understand the tremendous stress they were both under.

Yes, we're responsible for our rounds - but ask yourself.....armed man, he's turned on you...what are YOU gonna do?

Me....I'm gonna shoot and pray that my aim is good. If not, then it's up to a jury of peers to decide my fate. That may sound cold-blooded, but it is what it is. I can promise you one thing - were I to be on a jury w/regards to this or any other similar shoot, I'd cry with those wounded/killed, but find for "not guilty" for the guy that puts down a criminal absent any other obvious mitigating circumstances.