Self actualization and self sacrifice cannot both dwell in the sovereign self.

[breakingcontact]

Of course, people have different definitions of order. To many, order equates to control. That can be a very bad ideology for someone in a position of power.

To the rebellious order seems like control. From where, does rebellion come?

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Just trying to bring a little chaos to you're world.

Also *your

 

[breakingcontact]

And belief, by definition, can never be forced. You can force people into faking it but you can never force people to believe.

That's one reason why force is a weak tool for the weak of mind.

Force people to believe? Of course not. Force people into a real of manufactured order? That, you can do. For awhile anyways.

 

[Younggun]

To the rebellious order seems like control. From where, does rebellion come?

Not sure how exactly to answer this as I'm not sure how philosophical you want the answer to be.I think you know why people rebel against things in general,but I guess I could take a swing.

People tend to rebel because they are unhappy with controls which are placed on them, or actions which are taken that affect them without them consenting. People can rebel on many levels, from drinking in a speak easy to violent uprising.

 

[Younggun]

Force people to believe? Of course not. Force people into a real of manufactured order? That, you can do. For awhile anyways.

Is it really order in that case?

 

[Mike1234567]

Id honestly like you to elaborate.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we join a suicide cult.

What exactly do you mean?

Sorry... I didn't intend to insinuate a suicide cult. I intended to insinuate not being 'controlled' by anything, anyone, any group, any society or anything else. I guess the Kool-Aid remark went too far.

If you knew me you'd call me a Libertarian or Independent who believes deeply in the US Constitution.

 

[breakingcontact]

Not sure how exactly to answer this as I'm not sure how philosophical you want the answer to be.I think you know why people rebel against things in general,but I guess I could take a swing.

People tend to rebel because they are unhappy with controls which are placed on them, or actions which are taken that affect them without them consenting. People can rebel on many levels, from drinking in a speak easy to violent uprising.

From my Weltanshauung (worldview) rebellion came at the fall.

 

[breakingcontact]

Is it really order in that case?

Sure. Order is like gravity.

 

[Younggun]

From my Weltanshauung (worldview) rebellion came at the fall.

What fall? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the worldview.

 

[breakingcontact]

What fall? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the worldview.

Fall of man.

 

[Younggun]

Sure. Order is like gravity.

You can't really have fake gravity. You can have centrifugal force and use it in order to simulate gravity, but it is the opposite as gravity pulls you in and centrifugal force is your momentum pushing you out.

In that case, I guess it is a pretty good example of why simulated order is really not order at all.

 

[Younggun]

Fall of man.

That gets in to an area that we wouldn't really be able to discuss this subject do to different views. We don't have a shared base for the discussion.

Assuming you are referring to Adam and Eve eating the apple. Although I see that as a point of temptation and not an act of rebellion.

Not really trying to get in to that either though.

 

[breakingcontact]

You can't really have fake gravity. You can have centrifugal force and use it in order to simulate gravity, but it is the opposite as gravity pulls you in and centrifugal force is your momentum pushing you out.

In that case, I guess it is a pretty good example of why simulated order is really not order at all.

I said it could be manufactured. Take away manufactured order there is still order. Im in Austin right now. There is order. Civilization falls there will be an order perhaps a more natural one that emerges. May be some chaos until then and even after some may live chaotic lives but there is always an underlying order and possibly a constructed layer of order as well.

 

[Younggun]

I said it could be manufactured. Take away manufactured order there is still order. Im in Austin right now. There is order. Civilization falls there will be an order perhaps a more natural one that emerges. May be some chaos until then and even after some may live chaotic lives but there is always an underlying order and possibly a constructed layer of order as well.

Even in chaos there is order. The chaos you dislike has it's own form of order, just not a simple form.

 

[breakingcontact]

Even in chaos there is order. The chaos you dislike has it's own form of order, just not a simple form.

Nope.

 

[breakingcontact]

All participants in this thread report to the local community college philosophy class ASAP!

 

[peeps]

LoL at grammar...

My thoughts about rebellion: the order/control/leadership has broken its trust with the public, so they no longer feel like their basic needs are sufficiently secure under the environment. It's in human nature to fight or flight right? Those who feel strongly enough will fight for those needs.

Regarding Maslow and atheism/socialism....even though he may have held those views, I don't believe they influenced his theory in a negative or bias way toward those views.

 

[peeps]

All participants in this thread report to the local community college philosophy class ASAP!

haha, heads would explode...and my tax dollars don't need that extra crunch!

 

[peeps]

Even in chaos there is order. The chaos you dislike has it's own form of order, just not a simple form.

Nope.

Perhaps what BC meant was even though there may be chaos, that chaos arrived due to a certain order of events. The chaos happened for a reason, and had to happen for the inevitable events that were ordered to happen in the past, present, and future of said chaos.

 

[Younggun]

Nope.

There is always order, even in what seems random and chaotic.

Most of which is far too complicated for us too understand.