Open Carry

[Cliffh]

FYI.....You have to "intentionally" expose your concealed handgun to be in violation of the law.

Someone needs to tell that to the instructor who gave our class. He indicated that one would be in violation of the law for simply printing; i.e. using pocket carry and the outline of the weapon were visible to a LEO.

 

[APatriot]

Someone needs to tell that to the instructor who gave our class. He indicated that one would be in violation of the law for simply printing; i.e. using pocket carry and the outline of the weapon were visible to a LEO.

Actually this event demonstrates that one should not entirely rely on what "others" say about the law, whether it be on this forum, or "in the classroom" from an "instructor", but rather, take it upon yourself to study gun laws.

 

[bmacguyver]

well there is the primary point of the fact that in order to carry on your person with cc you MUST license a RIGHT. PRIVILEGES such as driving are licensed. a right should never require a license to exercise, requiring a license to exercise a right is in effect reducing that right to a privilege.

on oc in other states, the only one i have spent time in personally was virginia, it varied by county but generally the requirement then was to have a handgun and be able to carry it openly. i also had my chl when i was stationed there, cost me i think $50 and a copy of my Navy expert pistol qual, 90 days to the day later i had my card, at the time i transfered tx didnt reciprocate with Virginia so I was unable to carry here, that has since expired.

EN1 Mac

 

[Texan2]

Someone needs to tell that to the instructor who gave our class. He indicated that one would be in violation of the law for simply printing; i.e. using pocket carry and the outline of the weapon were visible to a LEO.

lmao/ YOU should go tell him and then show him the law in writing...It is frustrating to hear about instructors who are teaching incorrect information. Sounds like your instructor isn't savvy enough to read the law for himself...

 

[Wolfwood]

You don't need a CHL to have a gun in your home or vehicle for self-protection or to protect your loved ones. CHL expense was the issue, not the purchase of a weapon. Although if one can't afford the license you would wonder about the expense associated with purchasing a weapon. Maybe the weapon could be a gift or heirloom.

yeah becasue one never needs to protect his family when not at home or int heir car!
DUH!!!

 

[ROGER4314]

Printing was well covered in my first CHL class. In the renewal, it was de-emphasized and barely covered. As some of the guys stated, the law changed from "keep it covered at all times or you are in violation" to "You are in trouble if you intentionally expose the firearm to view." The law and interpretation of the law changes all the time. In fact, it can vary from city to town to community. Just do your best to keep informed about the "present revision of the current design."

Flash

 

[Cliffh]

The instructor & I had a conversation after class. He agreed to re-read the law later that night. Problem is, if he didn't know, how many other instructors don't? And how many other laws might they not be current on?

Even got him to change his stance on OC. He was against it until I pointed out that OC laws could be written to allow both OC & CC; after that he was supportive of the idea of OC. His only problem had been that he didn't want to give up CC for himself. Something to keep in mind when talking with others about OC.

Just throwing this out there: Now that we've refined our positions using APatriot as a sounding board, maybe we should all start writing to our Congressmen & Senators, the TSRA, NRA etc.

 

[Texan2]

Printing was well covered in my first CHL class. In the renewal, it was de-emphasized and barely covered. As some of the guys stated, the law changed from "keep it covered at all times or you are in violation" to "You are in trouble if you intentionally expose the firearm to view." The law and interpretation of the law changes all the time. In fact, it can vary from city to town to community. Just do your best to keep informed about the "present revision of the current design."

Flash

Actually....the law doesn't change all the time. The legislature only meets every two years and most laws dont change even then. The interpretation here has never been in question. Your instructor is incorrect if he said anything but the intentional exposure of your weapon is a violation. I travel this state at length and have never seen any community that has laws that restrict a CHL holder's rights.
TX law is quite clear on this and it applies to the entire state....
Printing is not illegal, never has been since the inception of the CHL, nor has an accidental flash due to the wind blowing.

 

[ROGER4314]

Actually....the law doesn't change all the time.

There's no point in arguing about this issue. You say the law is written in stone and interpretation is rigid. That's just not the way it is.

Two prime examples are laws regarding the carrying of knives and "Traveling" as related to weapon carry. These laws are notoriously vague and unevenly enforced. What is OK in one community, county or city will get you locked up in another place. Can you go to court and beat the charge? Probably, but you will be arrested, take a ride to the ironbar hotel, post bond, obtain the services of an attorney, appear in court and plead your case. In the end, if you beat the rap, did you win? Hell, no!

Now apply this concept to the "printing" issue. In one jurisdiction, it will be rigidly enforced and prosecuted. In another........."Oh look, John dropped his pistol in the bank, again."

How about car license, insurance and inspection? If I let my inspection lapse in my county, I can expect a "coupon" pretty quickly. I know folks who have driven on expired license, inspection and without insurance for 1-2 years!

The County Sheriff and County Judge are the most powerful individuals in most counties. What they say goes. The interpretation and enforcement of the law in Texas varies as much as the weather.

Flash

 

[Wolfwood]

The County Sheriff and County Judge are the most powerful individuals in most counties. What they say goes. The interpretation and enforcement of the law in Texas varies as much as the weather.

Flash

+1

 

[tedwitt]

As for me, I'm glad we need a license and am proud of my license. Someone mentioned you must have a license to drive a car as well as a license to CC. I wouldn't want someone driving beside me in Houston traffic without having to pass the test for a license, same as with the handgun.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Driving is a privelege - gun ownership is a right. There's a world of difference between the two!

 

[rayj8524]

Driving is a privelege - gun ownership is a right. There's a world of difference between the two!

This might start something here, but as Texas Redneck said, gun ownership is a right. Ownership is a right, carrying everywhere is a privlige. Unlike the day of two centuries ago, where everyone had guns for putting food on the table and to keep their "castle" safe, today that is not so. Two years ago, I did not own a gun nor had I shot a handgun. Now I do and have had lessons in handling and firing my handgun. You can own a car without a drivers license, you just cant drive it on public property. You can buy it and have some drive it home for you and as long as you keep it on your property, you can drive it without a license. Same thing with a pistol and carrying.
Thanks Texas Redneck for helping me to see this.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Wrong Ray - don't twist my words, please. I have the legal RIGHT to gun ownership - my RIGHT to carry has been usurped by legistlators over the years, and I've worked hard (as have many, many others) to regain my right to carry. Last time I looked, other than yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, you could pretty much say anything you please. Why are my rights to carry not as vigorously defended??? I've owned and carried my entire adult life - and I've had guns in my possession since the age of 12. Don't give me any of the BS propoganda about kids and guns, either - I LIVED the experience, and I KNOW what proper training can do. That you only recently got into guns does NOT give you a pass to attempt to regulate MY life.

 

[Wolfwood]

'driving' is a priviledge.

jsut remember you are only 'driving' if you are doing it for commercial purposes.
if you are carrying concealed for commercial purposes, i could see a license being nessecary.

i am with TxRed all the way on his posts in this thread.

 

[Proximo]

Here are my comments with Open Carry.

I think it's a tactical disadvantage for you to Open Carry and I would never Open Carry myself. If a bad guy is about to commit a crime, the first people targeted are those who pose a threat. If you Open Carry, you will be advertising ahead of time that you are a threat to the would be attacker and they would probably take you out first.

When you carry concealed, you have a tactical advantage because you are not advertising to the bad guy. I know there is always an exception to the rule, but I still believe you are at a disadvantage when you Open Carry. The other issue with Open Carry is that it scares people and our great Police Officers would be called to the scene by anti-gun citizens for no reason. Cops would have to investigate calls such as "I see a person with a gun" and Cops could be spending their time on more important things.

Now, Am I for or against Open Carry?

I am 100% for Open Carry and believe it's one of the most important things I would like to see pass soon. I know I just confused some of you but here is why. Although I would not Open Carry due to the reasons mentioned above, the importance of Open Carry is the ability for me no to be arrested when I reach up for something at the Grocery store and my Concealed Gun is exposed in public. The Open Carry law would protect me in these situations, which is something we need.

Open Carry is very important to me because I want the added benefit of not being arrested if I accidentally reveal my gun. I would not Open Carry myself because I want to blend in and not draw attention to myself from the bad guys.

Just my opinion.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Proximo, you're echoing my exact sentiments - as a motorcycle rider, it's all too easy to have a jacket/overshirt ride up and expose the weapon. And since this IS Texas, the simple act of wearing an overshirt/jacket in summer screams that something is "up". To me, it's just another tactical issue - and I want every option I can get.
I've invested (literally) thousands in various holsters/rigs in my search for a concealed rig, and so far none have succeeded, simply because there's too many variables in the clothes I wear. I'm trying one right now built by a cousin that's ex-SF - it shows promise, but time will tell. One of the issues for me is being able to put it on/off without being conspicuous, since I often enter restricted areas that preclude carry.

 

[atticus]

Once the camel gets his nose under the tent, before you know it the camel is standing inside the tent (and making a mess of things). The argument that carrying your gun is a privelege is letting that camel get his nose in the tent. The solution to unsafe gun practices is education. Last time I looked, there is a whole lot of advertising and encouragement for people to get some gun training. Local gun ranges are a great place to start. NRA is pulling its weight in the training area. All of us who value our rights have a responsibility to get training ourselves, and to encourage others to get training. If we don't police our own business, then we leave a vacuum for the government to step in and regulate. I prefer to have the government stay out of it. Carrying is not a privelege, it's a right. We need to exercise that right responsibly. But it's still a right.

 

[Cliffh]

I think it's a tactical disadvantage for you to Open Carry and I would never Open Carry myself. If a bad guy is about to commit a crime, the first people targeted are those who pose a threat. If you Open Carry, you will be advertising ahead of time that you are a threat to the would be attacker and they would probably take you out first.

Thank you for supporting OC. I hope you'll contact your state rep's and all the organizations you can think of to get an OC bill introduced and passed. It'd help if you could get family & friends involved too.

Regarding the "tactical disavandatage": You & I are in the same establishment. I'm OC'ing, you're CC'ing. If the "bad guy" isn't convinced to leave because he sees someone is armed and decides to take me on ('cause he can see my firearm), that's to your advantage - it'll give you more time to get to your own firearm. Keep in mind too that it's likely to take you longer to get to your firearm than I, most methods of CC'ing involve moving cover garments out of the way before you can get to your firearm; OC'ing doesn't (normally) have that additional complication.

 

[bmwmcars]

With any luck I will be moving to Texas soon; hopefully the job comes through. That said, moving from MI, where we have some interesting rules, I found the fact that TX does not have permitted open carry to be a bit interesting. MI has many restrictions (you can have a MG but not SBR/SBS/Supressor), but you can carry openly; and as a CPL holder, you can open carry in places that are prohibited for concealed carry. While I personally don't generally go around open carrying, its nice to know that if I do carry openly, even with a failed concealment, I am not going to run into trouble with the law (I often carry OWB under a jacket at work, which generally works perfect for concealment).

I will definitely be a supporter of open carry in TX and happy to write whomever need be when I get there!