Yeah, I ain't waiting to take fire.
Though... that is the ROE over in the 'Stan, isn't it?
No knock search warrant
- Thread starter tenfeathers
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Yeah, I ain't waiting to take fire.
Though... that is the ROE over in the 'Stan, isn't it?
No-knock raid victimizes mayor, kills dogs
Sneak and peaks, huh? They've been around in one form or another for awhile. The sad thing is now they are legal
I think no-knock warrants like the above article are far too dangerous to everyone involved, and the risk of being wrong is not worth the times when things go well.
tenfeathers
Member
I really hope your not naeve enough to believe a whole department will not lie to cover them selfs???, it has happened before and can happen again.
Course I'm not arguing the point ,just saying.
Course I'm not arguing the point ,just saying.
I am not naive. And I am telling you a whole department will not lie to cover bad officers. That is delusional, tin-foil thinking.
What experience, or expertise do you have to be able to make a ridiculous statement like that?
tenfeathers
Member
Somebody sent me a e-mail seems to think I'm pissed about this conversation I'm not ,so I'll drop it right here and say goodbye
San Antone RR
Well-Known
Yes, let's be civil.
Mexican_Hippie
TGT Addict
Ha, ha...nice!
ROGER4314
Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
This thread gets better as it runs! Adding some from our other thread and paraphrasing some from this thread, it goes like this:
You can be minding your own business, at home and obeying the law. Your door crashes down, they kill your dogs. You have not done anything wrong and some suggested that they could enter the home of an innocent person OR even the WRONG house with impunity!
Please don't tell me they won't search your house if you're innocent. I was ordered to submit to a search of my home and I didn't do shit to deserve that! It hit the fan right then and there and it got real ugly!
Continuing....They can enter violently, without notice and use deadly force if necessary.
The law says you can not defend yourself or your home even if the entry was at the wrong location. You can not open fire at the intruders even though they are killing your pets, wrecking your living quarters, and property, while threatening your life and the lives of your family and terrorizing your kids. But hey,........they might have smelled pot smoke or heard rustling noises like evidence was being destroyed or whatever story they concoct later.
In the end....they say "OOOPS!................. sorry" and walk away while it is suggested that a LE department would even lie to cover up a blunder after the fact.
Guys, do you see how screwed up this is?
I'm a peaceful man who obeys the law and treats LEO's with courtesy and respect but I've been through this once before and it won't end well.
Flash
You can be minding your own business, at home and obeying the law. Your door crashes down, they kill your dogs. You have not done anything wrong and some suggested that they could enter the home of an innocent person OR even the WRONG house with impunity!
Please don't tell me they won't search your house if you're innocent. I was ordered to submit to a search of my home and I didn't do shit to deserve that! It hit the fan right then and there and it got real ugly!
Continuing....They can enter violently, without notice and use deadly force if necessary.
The law says you can not defend yourself or your home even if the entry was at the wrong location. You can not open fire at the intruders even though they are killing your pets, wrecking your living quarters, and property, while threatening your life and the lives of your family and terrorizing your kids. But hey,........they might have smelled pot smoke or heard rustling noises like evidence was being destroyed or whatever story they concoct later.
In the end....they say "OOOPS!................. sorry" and walk away while it is suggested that a LE department would even lie to cover up a blunder after the fact.
Guys, do you see how screwed up this is?
I'm a peaceful man who obeys the law and treats LEO's with courtesy and respect but I've been through this once before and it won't end well.
Flash
HUH? You are all over the place. What are you trying to say? I enjoy the exchange of opinions, I just cant follow what you are trying to convey in this one, except that you are angry.
ROGER4314
Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
I'm not angry. I simply paraphrased what I learned from this thread, added to it what came from another thread and when it came together, I recognized a situation that was lose-lose for the homeowner.
If someone snitches out a crack house with armed occupants and they get the wrong address to serve the warrant, they will make a violent entry into the wrong house. An apartment was raided in Houston and a man was hit 19 times. As I recall, some of the rounds hit him after he was dead on the floor and later it appears that he did nothing wrong. WTF?
In bold print, I relate what happened to me when the resident FBI office at my job decided to search ALL of the worker's homes. I was selected for a search and I got ugly about it. They decided to search elsewhere. I didn't do anything to deserve that treatment. But at that point, I drew a line in the sand. I will never allow that again regardless of the cost.
As citizens, we are forbidden to protect our homes against an illegal, improper and misdirected entry. If they get the wrong house or information, they will make an entry and kill you. That is unconscionable.
Agencies get by with crap like this because citizens ALLOW it to continue. I will not allow it. You may interpret that any way you want.
That's all. No big mystery.
Flash
If someone snitches out a crack house with armed occupants and they get the wrong address to serve the warrant, they will make a violent entry into the wrong house. An apartment was raided in Houston and a man was hit 19 times. As I recall, some of the rounds hit him after he was dead on the floor and later it appears that he did nothing wrong. WTF?
In bold print, I relate what happened to me when the resident FBI office at my job decided to search ALL of the worker's homes. I was selected for a search and I got ugly about it. They decided to search elsewhere. I didn't do anything to deserve that treatment. But at that point, I drew a line in the sand. I will never allow that again regardless of the cost.
As citizens, we are forbidden to protect our homes against an illegal, improper and misdirected entry. If they get the wrong house or information, they will make an entry and kill you. That is unconscionable.
Agencies get by with crap like this because citizens ALLOW it to continue. I will not allow it. You may interpret that any way you want.
That's all. No big mystery.
Flash
That is much clearer. I hope I interpret it the way you meant it, that you feel people are having their rights violated. Although, I am not sure of what happened in your FBI experience.
Yes, there are documented cases of mistakes that have been tragic. Those instances are in the smal fractions of a percent, yet I know if you are the one who is on the wrong end of one of these mistakes, the infrequency matters little. Unfortunately there is no way to be 100% and even if they are 99.999% right on hitting the right houses, when they hit the wrong one it is not good and departments need to be accountable.
I dont believe that is what happened in this Arizona case that has been diccussed. They were at the correct house. In all likelihood the dead guy knew the police were there. They certainly did what was within their power to announce their presence. I think that what grabs some sympathy here is that the guy was a Marine. If they had gone into a crack house and shot a guy this probably wouldnt even have made news outside of Arizona.
Many love to point out that there are bad cops, and there are. There are also members of the military that are engaged in criminal activity. The vast majority are good folks serving their country, but there are always bad apples. It is possible this Marine was one of them.
regardless of what he was involved in, it is unfortunate that this incident ended the way it did...for all involved.
Mexican_Hippie
TGT Addict
I have less of a problem with properly authorized warrants vs warrantless searches. My main problem with the no-knock warrants is that less force could be applied in some circumstances.
Persons on private property should be given an opportunity to come out and surrender in 100% of circumstances before someone goes busting in, IMO. Yes, I know that means additional risks for the officers, but it means less risks for innocents accidentally getting killed. Our laws should always designed to ensure innocents are spared, even at the expense of letting BGs go.
Persons on private property should be given an opportunity to come out and surrender in 100% of circumstances before someone goes busting in, IMO. Yes, I know that means additional risks for the officers, but it means less risks for innocents accidentally getting killed. Our laws should always designed to ensure innocents are spared, even at the expense of letting BGs go.
ROGER4314
Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
It's simple with me. Breach my door for whatever damned justification you think you have and there will be trouble.
My FBI experience was different. They called 177 men together and said they were going to search all of our homes. The reason? They KNEW we were stealing. The bosses drove personal vehicles and trucks onto the base. I saw what they did every day. It was not worth your life to say anything about it.
The workers (like me) had our lunch boxes searched every time we left the base and we were subject to search anytime. We walked into the base from the parking lot. Guess who was stealing? What the Hell could a worker steal? Perhaps a pencil? That type of search was for "fishing" and to intimidate the workers.
Fishing boils down to this: "Let's go in to see if he's doing something wrong." I didn't do a damned thing wrong but they chose some of us to hammer and I was selected. I got ugly about it and said.....well.....you know. It got real bad. Two of us stood up to them but neither one of us had any further problems.
I obey the law and have a spotless record. Please don't say search abuses won't happen if you obey the law. I know better.
I will treat either type of search: "fishing" or "violent breach" the same way. If I haven't done anything wrong, I refuse to cower, back up or stand aside.
Flash
My FBI experience was different. They called 177 men together and said they were going to search all of our homes. The reason? They KNEW we were stealing. The bosses drove personal vehicles and trucks onto the base. I saw what they did every day. It was not worth your life to say anything about it.
The workers (like me) had our lunch boxes searched every time we left the base and we were subject to search anytime. We walked into the base from the parking lot. Guess who was stealing? What the Hell could a worker steal? Perhaps a pencil? That type of search was for "fishing" and to intimidate the workers.
Fishing boils down to this: "Let's go in to see if he's doing something wrong." I didn't do a damned thing wrong but they chose some of us to hammer and I was selected. I got ugly about it and said.....well.....you know. It got real bad. Two of us stood up to them but neither one of us had any further problems.
I obey the law and have a spotless record. Please don't say search abuses won't happen if you obey the law. I know better.
I will treat either type of search: "fishing" or "violent breach" the same way. If I haven't done anything wrong, I refuse to cower, back up or stand aside.
Flash
So they wanted to go on a fishing expedition at your house? You said no....and they didn't search?
If that is correct, what is the problem?
It sounds like your rights weren't violated and you didnt lose your job.
Perhaps I missed something.
ROGER4314
Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
They knew I would fight and decided not to f--- with me. It got ugly, but it was worth it. I won't live on my knees but some folks think it's OK to lick the mans' boots. I'm not one of them.
Troll away .....snicker...........I'm going to go play with Jake. Have a nice day.
Flash
Troll away .....snicker...........I'm going to go play with Jake. Have a nice day.
Flash
Seriously? It's so easy to think of a counterexample here. What about an arrest warrant on someone who is suspected of shooting at the Police? Or a known PCP user? Knocking and announcing in cases like that would be reckless.
San Antone RR
Well-Known
I don't think there is any trolling here. The Feebs pretty much asked for you to bend over and take it; you did what "I" and some/few/many/most on THIS FORUM would do and told them to kiss your ass.
They wanted sheeple to say "I did nothing wrong, so search me". **** that. You did the right and correct thing. We agree with you. I would guess that the majority here don't/WON'T live on their knees. That's the tie that binds us here.
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