Multiple People Shot at Texas Church

[Renegade]

What some of our "tactical experts" seem to miss is they had no reason to suspect he was going to do what he did

Not paying much attention are you?

cause if you were you would know every single security volunteer to give a public statement said they were suspicious of him as soon as they saw him and kept a constant eye on him.

 

[Renegade]

Apparently he was known to the church. That's probably the reason they gave him more latitude.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/31/gunma...efore-shooting/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

he was known, but since in disguise they did not recognize him

 

[CPTKILLER]

Despite the media, trained and armed citizens make a difference.

 

[Whistler]

Not paying much attention are you?

cause if you were you would know every single security volunteer to give a public statement said they were suspicious of him as soon as they saw him and kept a constant eye on him.

Well I thought I was expressing that if they thought he was going to pull out a shotgun and kill people they probably would have done a bit more than "keep an eye on him". My apologies if that was somehow lost in translation but no, I didn't miss the fact they were suspicious.

 

[TX OMFS]

he was known, but since in disguise they did not recognize him

Did one of them say they didn't recognize him? I haven't seen that but I haven't read a lot of articles. His disguise sounded so outrageous that I assumed it was childish & he would be easily recognized. Like when my kids dress up & think I can't recognize them.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Some of us seem to like to argue? Says the guy analyzing and nit picking every detail of a situation he wasn't in, only has incomplete second hand knowledge of and can't accept a handful of old guys volunteering at church on Sunday didn't respond like a Seal trained SWAT unit?

Okay you win, I for one am grateful for your insightful comments and highly informative analysis. Thank you from the bottom of my unworthy heart.

Anytime

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Renegade]

they thought he was going to pull out a shotgun and kill people they probably would have done a bit more than "keep an eye on him".

Thanks for that brilliant 20/20 hindsight analysis captain obvious. I think anyone who has been a victim of a crime would have done a bit more if they knew they were about to be a victim.

Other famous 20/20 hindsight:

I would have stopped the ship if I knew we were going to hit an iceberg and sink

I would have grounded all planes the day before 9/11 if I knew they were going to crash them into buildings

I would not have bought a lottery ticket if I knew it was a loser

I would not have bought that lady a drink if I knew she would not go home with me

ROFL

 

[Renegade]

Did one of them say they didn't recognize him?

Nobody has said they recognized him. It was only after the shooting was he ID’d

 

[Ioannes]

I don't think that anyone is criticizing or denigrating the church security, whose actions were nothing short of heroic. I am pretty sure were I to be placed in the same situation, many more people innocent people would have probably lost their lives.

Many of us attend and/or serve in a church and i'm pretty sure 100% of us want to protect our families and communities. IMO an analysis of the events and open discussion helps us all.

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[Wildcat Diva]

My mind minutely analyzes concepts in an attempt to understand and learn. It’s how I’m built and I come by that honest. If my out loud expression of that here is bothering anyone, well... I don’t really care.

Any interpretation of disrespect to the victims by my comments is all on the reader. None is implied.

 

[Whistler]

Thanks for that brilliant 20/20 hindsight analysis captain obvious. I think anyone who has been a victim of a crime would have done a bit more if they knew they were about to be a victim.

Other famous 20/20 hindsight:

I would have stopped the ship if I knew we were going to hit an iceberg and sink

I would have grounded all planes the day before 9/11 if I knew they were going to crash them into buildings

I would not have bought a lottery ticket if I knew it was a loser

I would not have bought that lady a drink if I knew she would not go home with me

ROFL

That post was in response to #288 where it was posited "they made a terrible mistake by not situating themselves within arms reach of him".

My entire quote was "What some of our "tactical experts" seem to miss is they had no reason to suspect he was going to do what he did. Had they thought that its unlikely they wouldn't have taken some action to prevent it." meaning they would have taken further action had they considered him a greater threat and not just suspicious.

You said I wasn't paying attention to the fact they considered him suspicious and I clarified what I thought was a fairly simple to comprehend statement. In response you go off with a "captain obvious" diatribe obstensibly because you can't make the mental connection their assessment of the threat was not what hindsight might dictate or that somehow I mischaracterized they underestimated the threat which we only know after the fact.

A rather long way of saying don't lay your lack of reading comprehension on me.

I'm unclear how expressing my opinion we shouldn't criticize their actions because we weren't there, these guys weren't more than volunteers, us old guys aren't as quick as we used to be and we have benefit of knowing the result (which they did not) is somehow less valid than a detailed analysis by others, most of whom have never been in that situation themselves.

I'm just repeating my self at this juncture anyway and will leave the woulda, coulda, shoulda critiques for the more skilled, trained and tactically minded.

My apologies for asking we show more understanding and compassion for brave men who did their best.

 

[cherok2e]

The shooter was among the wounded at the church.

The shooter died at the church with a head shot.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

I think I’ve said enough times, that I’m not perfect, and at times would WILLINGLY break rules of what is tactically optimum with my choices. This puts me at a disadvantage. I need to make up for that disadvantage and other disadvantages by improving in other ways.

I’m not trying to be a badass by critiquing. Not implying that they should have been perfect. I’m trying to improve my game the best I can, since obviously I AM NOT PERFECT.

 

[cherok2e]

This is like 25 minutes from my house in Fort Worth. My mothers church has like 10 people at the sermon that are in a security role all conceal carrying. Churches aren't as easy targets as schools because people are starting to go to them armed.

He got 2 folks before he got shot. I wonder if it was personal or if it was a rampage shoot.

Sounded like they had him identified as he came in. Long coat, fake beard and wig with one security person sitting behind him for observation. He was a visitor to the church for help and had arrest record in area, known by Leo's. He did a lot of getting up and down before he got balls enough to make his move.

No one may ever know his reason.

 

[Renegade]

I'm unclear how expressing my opinion we shouldn't criticize their actions because we weren't there, these guys weren't more than volunteers, us old guys aren't as quick as we used to be and we have benefit of knowing the result (which they did not) is somehow less valid than a detailed analysis by others, most of whom have never been in that situation themselves.

There is only one person here being critical of the guy who could not draw at the speed of MaxMichel, just let him live with his SEAL Team 6 fantasies.

 

[Renegade]

If you are on an armed security team presumably intent on combating and armed threat, is it reasonable to carry where it takes 3.1 seconds to access your weapon? (NO!)

You fight evil with the tools and skills you have, not the ones you wish you had.

Again you make so many assumptions. Perhaps the guy who can draw at .87 seconds was sick that day, so 3.1 stepped up as he was better than nothing. etc.

 

[cherok2e]

Given how crowded the place was, the best thing the guard probably could have done was to take the time necessary to aim properly and take a single shot.

The security guy says he held fire for clear shot and then made a lethal head shot at 6 seconds. There will be things this church studies and corrects. Allow that to happen and the rest of the world to study it and also learn.

The problem with where these shootings are occurring is that the Deep State is using sites that cause the most reaction from the public for their gun control agenda.

We should be angered with the Left for using their political agenda driven False Flags to kill citizens and stand behind President Trump and his agenda.

 

[BRD@66]

Will this incident be enough to bring .357 Sig off of the passé list?

 

[cherok2e]

Yea thats a shame. ......and seriously overweight and in a sitting position when he reached. Dont think he ever got it out, could be wrong.

You are wrong, look at the video.

 

[Rhino]

You are wrong, look at the video.

Yeah, and not only did he get it out, one other source said he managed to fire, striking the wall next to the assailant.