If OC passes.

[nalioth]

...The law will still require you carry a license and display it when a peace officer asks you to ID yourself.

Even if you aren't suspected of a crime? Out of curiosity, can you point to the law or decision that makes this so? Not trying to be a smart ass, just very curious. I though Texas didn't have stop and identify laws, and requiring ID only applied to persons suspected of committing crimes.

You always have the goods on actual law vs internet forum law

Um, if you hadn't edited it out, the answer is in the same post you quoted from

Since ONLY licensed carry will be lawful, a Peace Officer will be allowed to ask for your license.

If this law passes and you are carrying a handgun openly, any LEO can stop you and check that you are licensed.

Same as when driving a car.

You can't be stopped walking down the street for a drivers license check because you're not driving a car, and should this law pass, if you're not carrying a handgun openly, you won't be stopped for a CHL check then, either, unless the LEO has another reason to stop you.

 

[MR Redneck]

Even if you aren't suspected of a crime? Out of curiosity, can you point to the law or decision that makes this so? Not trying to be a smart ass, just very curious. I though Texas didn't have stop and identify laws, and requiring ID only applied to persons suspected of committing crimes.

You always have the goods on actual law vs internet forum law

You know, that a good point. Maybe that's why Texas doesnt have traffic stop check points like NM has. If I remember correctly, even a traffic stop requires probably cause.
Im looking into this further.

 

[nalioth]

You know, that a good point. Maybe that's why Texas doesnt have traffic stop check points like NM has. If I remember correctly, even a traffic stop requires probably cause.
Im looking into this further.

His question was answered in the exact txinvestigator post he quoted from.

 

[M. Sage]

...and, I'm unfamiliar with the "stunt in Philly" that you mention, but because it will be "Licensed carry", police will have every right to ask anyone they see with a pistol for their license.
It'll be no different from showing your license and registration for your vehicle if pulled over.

The stunt in Philly is some idiot cop pulling his gun on someone who wasn't doing anything wrong, yelling about a dozen F bombs at him, and when backup got there, proning him out, disarming and arresting him. For nothing.

They'll have the right to ask, but I don't see where they'll have the right to demand it except under certain circumstances. To pull you over and check your driver's license, there has to be a valid reason. "Because he was in a car" doesn't cut it.

 

[ghostscout]

They'll have the right to ask, but I don't see where they'll have the right to demand it except under certain circumstances. To pull you over and check your driver's license, there has to be a valid reason. "Because he was in a car" doesn't cut it.

This sounds a bit more reasonable. IMO if they did stop everyone who open carried they would be wasting valuable time and.tax money when there are real problems to be dealt with. Like all of the retard drivers in Austin. Then again I randomly get pulled over for looking suspicious. Ahhhhh... I could go for days ranting about "what should be"

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

His question was answered in the exact txinvestigator post he quoted from.

Ummm, no it wasn't. Thanks for playing, twice, but it didn't answer my question or I wouldn't have had to ask it. Here's his full quote:

This is one of my issues with open carry; "Look at me, I carry a gun and I'm a tough guy".

What makes you think a gun will bother them? You can't shoot a guy bothering you for money.

And what do you mean, "would you let a cop randomly ask you for a CHL if you are minding your own business?" How would you stop hiim from asking? And what are you going to do if he does? The law will still require you carry a license and display it when a peace officer asks you to ID yourself. Since ONLY licensed carry will be lawful, a Peace Officer will be allowed to ask for your license.

And I am calling MAJOR BULLSHIT on the "I kick the ass of people begging for money" stories. Complete BULLSHIT.

There's a difference between ID and your CHL. I also asked TXI for the relevant section of law or judicial decisions so that I can take a look at them and understand them better. He seems to have a really good handle on those sort of details.

Next time read a little closer. You're not my mommy, I don't need you answering for me.

 

[nalioth]

Ummm, no it wasn't. Thanks for playing, twice, but it didn't answer my question or I wouldn't have had to ask it. Here's his full quote:

This is one of my issues with open carry; "Look at me, I carry a gun and I'm a tough guy".

What makes you think a gun will bother them? You can't shoot a guy bothering you for money.

And what do you mean, "would you let a cop randomly ask you for a CHL if you are minding your own business?" How would you stop hiim from asking? And what are you going to do if he does? The law will still require you carry a license and display it when a peace officer asks you to ID yourself. Since ONLY licensed carry will be lawful, a Peace Officer will be allowed to ask for your license.

And I am calling MAJOR BULLSHIT on the "I kick the ass of people begging for money" stories. Complete BULLSHIT.

There's a difference between ID and your CHL. I also asked TXI for the relevant section of law or judicial decisions so that I can take a look at them and understand them better. He seems to have a really good handle on those sort of details.

Next time read a little closer. You're not my mommy, I don't need you answering for me.

Your original question:

Even if you aren't suspected of a crime? Out of curiosity, can you point to the law or decision that makes this so? Not trying to be a smart ass, just very curious. I though Texas didn't have stop and identify laws, and requiring ID only applied to persons suspected of committing crimes.

You always have the goods on actual law vs internet forum law

The answer is highlighted for you.

The "suspected crime" for the stop-and-check will be UCW.

Thanks for playing

Indeed.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Your original question:

The answer is highlighted for you.

The "suspected crime" for the stop-and-check will be UCW.

Indeed.

Look, I get that English isn't your first language but please stop. You're embarrassing yourself. The part you highlighted above doesn't answer my question highlighted below. I asked TXI a question about the section of the law or relevant case law so that I could go take a look at it and learn. Your juvenile, moronic responses are just cluttering the thread.

You have to have a license to drive a car too, but officers can't pull everyone over just to check their license. I think I had a valid question that I was looking for an educated response to.

Even if you aren't suspected of a crime? Out of curiosity, can you point to the law or decision that makes this so? Not trying to be a smart ass, just very curious. I though Texas didn't have stop and identify laws, and requiring ID only applied to persons suspected of committing crimes.

You always have the goods on actual law vs internet forum law

 

[Bithabus]

You have to have a license to drive a car too, but officers can't pull everyone over just to check their license. I think I had a valid question that I was looking for an educated response to.

Are you asking why Officers would be able to stop anyone carrying an exposed handgun, if the current OC bill passes?

If the bill passes carrying a handgun outside of your premises or vehicle etc.. will still be illegal by State law. Viewing a handgun being carried will give the Officer reasonable suspicion that a law is being broken (46.02). And they would have to right to stop that person to make sure they have an exemption to 46.02. This could be traveling, LE ID, "going to the range", or a CHL.

 

[MR Redneck]

Are you asking why Officers would be able to stop anyone carrying an exposed handgun, if the current OC bill passes?

If the bill passes carrying a handgun outside of your premises or vehicle etc.. will still be illegal by State law. Viewing a handgun being carried will give the Officer reasonable suspicion that a law is being broken (46.02). And they would have to right to stop that person to make sure they have an exemption to 46.02. This could be traveling, LE ID, "going to the range", or a CHL.

Now that's an intelligent answer.
While on that same thought, isnt driving a car still illegal by state law? That's is until you have the exemption, "license". So why cant the cops just pull everybody over to check for DL's?

 

[Bithabus]

Now that's an intelligent answer.
While on that same thought, isnt driving a car still illegal by state law? That's is until you have the exemption, "license". So why cant the cops just pull everybody over to check for DL's?

Driving a car is not illegal. Driving a car without a license is illegal. In the case of a car the Officer would need to reasonably suspect that you are driving a car and do not have a DL. Works differently with the handgun law.

 

[nalioth]

Are you asking why Officers would be able to stop anyone carrying an exposed handgun, if the current OC bill passes?

If the bill passes carrying a handgun outside of your premises or vehicle etc.. will still be illegal by State law. Viewing a handgun being carried will give the Officer reasonable suspicion that a law is being broken (46.02). And they would have to right to stop that person to make sure they have an exemption to 46.02. This could be traveling, LE ID, "going to the range", or a CHL.

Now that's an intelligent answer.
While on that same thought, isnt driving a car still illegal by state law? That's is until you have the exemption, "license". So why cant the cops just pull everybody over to check for DL's?

So is Bithabus "embarrassing himself" because he gave the same answer? Or was I "embarrassing myself" because I didn't use a lot of words to explain it?

The "suspected crime" for the stop-and-check will be UCW.

Somebody is confused.

 

[MR Redneck]

Driving a car is not illegal. Driving a car without a license is illegal. In the case of a car the Officer would need to reasonably suspect that you are driving a car and do not have a DL. Works differently with the handgun law.

I see. It's because the law make's the gun illegal.

 

[nalioth]

Driving a car is not illegal. Driving a car without a license is illegal. In the case of a car the Officer would need to reasonably suspect that you are driving a car and do not have a DL. Works differently with the handgun law.

I see. It's because the law make's the gun illegal.

Which is exactly what txinvestigator said in his post:

This is one of my issues with open carry; "Look at me, I carry a gun and I'm a tough guy".

What makes you think a gun will bother them? You can't shoot a guy bothering you for money.

And what do you mean, "would you let a cop randomly ask you for a CHL if you are minding your own business?" How would you stop hiim from asking? And what are you going to do if he does? The law will still require you carry a license and display it when a peace officer asks you to ID yourself. Since ONLY licensed carry will be lawful, a Peace Officer will be allowed to ask for your license.

A license is a "permission slip" for an otherwise illegal act.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Which is exactly what txinvestigator said in his post:


A license is a "permission slip" for an otherwise illegal act.

Dude, get over yourself. Seriously. I was trying to ask a valid question and looking for specific info. Bithabus had the info I was looking for citing 46.02 and the difference between drivers license and CHL (Thanks Bithabus for your response it helps.). Mr.Redneck had the same question as me.

I'm trying to learn something and you're just getting in the way. If you don't have the answer then don't respond just so you can look tough on the internet.

Not once did TXI cite 46.02 or any case law (I'm sure he knows but probably wasn't on right now). That was my question. If I had asked him to paraphrase current law so I could blindly trust in it without reading it for myself, then his answer would have sufficed. The question had nothing to do with you, but you felt the need to but in and clutter up the thread. Thanks. For nothing.

 

[txinvestigator]

If this law passes and you are carrying a handgun openly, any LEO can stop you and check that you are licensed.

Correct.

 

[txinvestigator]

Not once did TXI cite 46.02 or any case law (I'm sure he knows but probably wasn't on right now). That was my question. If I had asked him to paraphrase current law so I could blindly trust in it without reading it for myself, then his answer would have sufficed. The question had nothing to do with you, but you felt the need to but in and clutter up the thread. Thanks. For nothing.

Sorry man, I just poked my head back in this thread. Did your question get answered?

 

[TexasRedneck]

Okay....just to stir this up a bit more - someone with more smarts than me explain this:

If you have to have "probable cause" to check to see if someone has a license while they're driving, then why wouldn't the same hold true for stopping someone that's open carrying if the law allows them to do so? Either one requires a license in order to exercise the act.

I don't want to know what SHOULD be, or why it's "wrong" - I'm dealing with the potential realities as the proposed law would create.

 

[MR Redneck]

Okay....just to stir this up a bit more - someone with more smarts than me explain this:

If you have to have "probable cause" to check to see if someone has a license while they're driving, then why wouldn't the same hold true for stopping someone that's open carrying if the law allows them to do so? Either one requires a license in order to exercise the act.

I don't want to know what SHOULD be, or why it's "wrong" - I'm dealing with the potential realities as the proposed law would create.

Dang old man, pay attention!
It's like Bitabus explained. Because a car is not illegal and you only need a license to operate one.
Here in Texas, handgun's are "Illegal" in public. Unless you have the permission slip, traveling, or heading to a sporting activity.

"Do you see a lawsuit comming"? "handguns are illegal in public"....................

 

[txinvestigator]

46.02 of the penal code makes it unawful to carry a handgun on or about your person. 46.15(b) makes 46.02 not appply to you if you meet the requirements of 46.15(b).

If a peace officer observes an act that is generally unlawful, he can stop and investigate that. You show your CHL and on your way you go.

If he sees an inadvertant flash of your concealed handgun, that is not unlawful either. But once he becomes aware that you are engaged in an act the the penal code proscribes, he can investigate that act.

In either case he will ask for your license, If you refuse to show, he will arrest you for UCW.

I'll tell you something else that will happen with OC. More places will post 30.06. Right now business owners have no way of knowing when a person is carrying inside their business. "out of sight means out of mind".