I have mixed feelings on this....

[cycleguy2300]

Most of this won't make sense now that the post I was responding to is mostly deleted. Probably a good call to delete it though. It was bad take after bad take.

I'll say it, I was just trying to limit the scope.
***
You're circumstances were very different than this event.
Perhaps the most drastic are:

- This wasn't in the middle of the night, no reason to think he was asleep or didn't hear who was at the door

- This event was in direct response to a potentially active violent event, not a relatively calm warrant service.
***

Arming yourself is one thing, but opening your door to show whoever it may knocking and saying "Sheriff's Office!" Innthe common area of an apartment that youre a big bad airman with a gun is stupid, illegal and will get you killed...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

 

[Havok1]

Deadly force is justified from the user's reasonable perspective, not the dead guy who is only a victim of his own bad judgment.


Why open a door to a public area displaying a gun in hand? L
When are you allowed to display a firearm in public?

I someone on the street behind you shouts "police stop" (and you hear something ambiguous but recognize it was directed to you) Can you draw and turn so long as you keep it low (for now)?

If a delivery guy (pizza, amazon take your pick) knocked and he answered with a gun in hand just as he did for the officer and the delivery called, absent other circumstances I'd write it articulating PC 22.07Terroristic Threat which light edited for reading states:


I can be in my own home, yet threaten somone outside of it with a firearm... being in your own home, even with a door open affords you a few protection, but if I am visiting a friend and little private citizen knocks on the wrong door or knocks delivering a package and this guy pulled that stunt flashing his gun, I'd not have one problem with articulating why the shooting would be justified or why an arrest under 22.07 was gtg.


Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

The victim was in his residence, not in public. He also didn’t threaten anyone. you keep tossing around the word reasonable not unlike how the left tosses around the word racism. You’re repeating it hoping eventually people will just accept it as true but most of us see right through the fact that your opinion has constantly been based on an inaccurate account of the event. The officers actions were not reasonable.

 

[Havok1]

I'll say it, I was just trying to limit the scope.
***
You're circumstances were very different than this event.
Perhaps the most drastic are:

- This wasn't in the middle of the night, no reason to think he was asleep or didn't hear who was at the door

- This event was in direct response to a potentially active violent event, not a relatively calm warrant service.
***

Arming yourself is one thing, but opening your door to show whoever it may knocking and saying "Sheriff's Office!" Innthe common area of an apartment that youre a big bad airman with a gun is stupid, illegal and will get you killed...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Then you haven’t knocked on enough doors to realize how normal it is.

 

[TreyG-20]

I'll say it, I was just trying to limit the scope.
***
You're circumstances were very different than this event.
Perhaps the most drastic are:

- This wasn't in the middle of the night, no reason to think he was asleep or didn't hear who was at the door

- This event was in direct response to a potentially active violent event, not a relatively calm warrant service.
***

Arming yourself is one thing, but opening your door to show whoever it may knocking and saying "Sheriff's Office!" Innthe common area of an apartment that youre a big bad airman with a gun is stupid, illegal and will get you killed...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

None of that is what you deleted. I'm done responding since you can't stick to what you say. Hopefully that murder doesn't drop the soap. Just kidding. I hope he does.

 

[cbp210]

Incidents like this remind me why RING tone is a good investment.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Hey @cycleguy2300, another wonderful screw up by FL LE. This just happened this past Saturday. This is part of the training issues in FL. There is a complete lack of understanding in FL about the state's own firearm laws by FL LE.

Florida Police Officer Shows Ignorance of Gun Laws on Live TV

Police Officer Shows Ignorance of Gun Laws on Live TV

The presence of the pistol led Daytona Beach Police Officer Chris Marr to detain the driver because he was 20 years old.

www.ammoland.com

Over the weekend on Friday, the Reelz show “On Patrol Live” broadcasted an officer from the Daytona Beach Police Department (DBPD) in Florida pulling over a car, believing it might be stolen. Although the officer could not prove the car was stolen, the officer was informed that a Palmetto State Armory AR-15 pistol was in the back of the vehicle.

“On Patrol Live” is a rebranding of the former A&E show “Live PD.” “Live PD” was pulled off the air due to anti-police sentiment after the killing of George Floyd during an encounter with law enforcement. The show went on hiatus for a while before being relaunched on the Reelz TV Network as “On Patrol Live.” The show features several police departments across the country broadcasting a live feed of law enforcement activities for a captivated TV audience.

The presence of the pistol led Daytona Beach Police Officer Chris Marr to detain the driver because he was 20 years old. The officer informed the driver it was illegal for him to own a pistol because he was under 21 and stated he was going to jail. The problem is that the officer was wrong and threatened to arrest someone falsely.
Under federal law, a gun owner must be 21 to buy a pistol from a federal firearms licensee (FFL). Under Florida law, a gun buyer must be 21 to buy a gun from an FFL. Neither Florida nor the federal government have any law against someone under 21 from owning a pistol. In fact, Florida doesn’t have universal background checks (UBC), which means an 18-year-old could purchase a gun from a private sale.

The young man’s father tried to inform Officer Marr that owning the gun was not against the law. Instead of verifying the statute for the ownership of pistols, the Daytona Beach Police officer threatened the father with arrest. After much pressure, the driver was forced to say that the gun was not his. He was under the impression that if he admitted to being the pistol’s owner, then he would be going to jail. The police confiscated the pistol even though there was no evidence that the gun was illegally owned or stolen.

The in-studio panel made up of law enforcement officers surmised that the man might be facing federal prison time for owning a pistol under the age of 21. The panel was comprised of a mixture of active and former law enforcement officers. The fact that they didn’t know the law was shocking. AmmoLand News contacted several lawyers to ensure the law enforcement officers were wrong. We were informed that the officers were grossly misinformed about federal and state laws. One lawyer was shocked that the DBPC officer didn’t know the state or federal law on the age at which one can own a pistol.

AmmoLand News spoke to Gun Owners of America (GOA) Florida State Director Luis Valdes about what transpired. Mr. Valdes is a former law enforcement officer who watched a replay of the interaction on TV. He pointed to a lack of training and was angered by how quickly the officer rushed to assume that a law existed that prevented a 20-year-old man from owning a firearm.

“It is a travesty that, once again, Floridians had their rights violated by Daytona Beach Police,” Valdes said. “As a former LEO myself, I am angered at the lack of training and understanding some officers in Florida have toward the Second Amendment. Nowhere in Florida’s convoluted legal system does it state an adult under 21 cannot legally own a firearm. But it appears that Ofc. Chris Marr of DBPD thinks such a law exists. This isn’t the first time that DBPD screwed over a Florida gun owner. Just recently, the agency illegally arrested a resident for openly carrying on his own property while protecting his daughter from an aggressive pit bull! It appears that Daytona Beach isn’t a safe place for gun owners.”

Immediately after the interaction, AmmoLand News contacted the media contact from the DBPD via email, phone calls, and text. We wanted to know if Officer Marr has been corrected on the law and how the department will ensure its officers will not repeat the same mistake. As of Sunday night, AmmoLand News has not gotten a response. AmmoLand News also contacted “On Patrol Live,” but our request for comment was ignored.

On Saturday, the show “On Patrol Live” did not mention the encounter. This encounter shows the dangers of police encounters when the officers do not know the law.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Hey @cycleguy2300, another wonderful screw up by FL LE. This just happened this past Saturday. This is part of the training issues in FL. There is a complete lack of understanding in FL about the state's own firearm laws by FL LE.

Florida Police Officer Shows Ignorance of Gun Laws on Live TV

Police Officer Shows Ignorance of Gun Laws on Live TV

The presence of the pistol led Daytona Beach Police Officer Chris Marr to detain the driver because he was 20 years old.

www.ammoland.com

Over the weekend on Friday, the Reelz show “On Patrol Live” broadcasted an officer from the Daytona Beach Police Department (DBPD) in Florida pulling over a car, believing it might be stolen. Although the officer could not prove the car was stolen, the officer was informed that a Palmetto State Armory AR-15 pistol was in the back of the vehicle.

“On Patrol Live” is a rebranding of the former A&E show “Live PD.” “Live PD” was pulled off the air due to anti-police sentiment after the killing of George Floyd during an encounter with law enforcement. The show went on hiatus for a while before being relaunched on the Reelz TV Network as “On Patrol Live.” The show features several police departments across the country broadcasting a live feed of law enforcement activities for a captivated TV audience.

The presence of the pistol led Daytona Beach Police Officer Chris Marr to detain the driver because he was 20 years old. The officer informed the driver it was illegal for him to own a pistol because he was under 21 and stated he was going to jail. The problem is that the officer was wrong and threatened to arrest someone falsely.
Under federal law, a gun owner must be 21 to buy a pistol from a federal firearms licensee (FFL). Under Florida law, a gun buyer must be 21 to buy a gun from an FFL. Neither Florida nor the federal government have any law against someone under 21 from owning a pistol. In fact, Florida doesn’t have universal background checks (UBC), which means an 18-year-old could purchase a gun from a private sale.

The young man’s father tried to inform Officer Marr that owning the gun was not against the law. Instead of verifying the statute for the ownership of pistols, the Daytona Beach Police officer threatened the father with arrest. After much pressure, the driver was forced to say that the gun was not his. He was under the impression that if he admitted to being the pistol’s owner, then he would be going to jail. The police confiscated the pistol even though there was no evidence that the gun was illegally owned or stolen.

The in-studio panel made up of law enforcement officers surmised that the man might be facing federal prison time for owning a pistol under the age of 21. The panel was comprised of a mixture of active and former law enforcement officers. The fact that they didn’t know the law was shocking. AmmoLand News contacted several lawyers to ensure the law enforcement officers were wrong. We were informed that the officers were grossly misinformed about federal and state laws. One lawyer was shocked that the DBPC officer didn’t know the state or federal law on the age at which one can own a pistol.

AmmoLand News spoke to Gun Owners of America (GOA) Florida State Director Luis Valdes about what transpired. Mr. Valdes is a former law enforcement officer who watched a replay of the interaction on TV. He pointed to a lack of training and was angered by how quickly the officer rushed to assume that a law existed that prevented a 20-year-old man from owning a firearm.

“It is a travesty that, once again, Floridians had their rights violated by Daytona Beach Police,” Valdes said. “As a former LEO myself, I am angered at the lack of training and understanding some officers in Florida have toward the Second Amendment. Nowhere in Florida’s convoluted legal system does it state an adult under 21 cannot legally own a firearm. But it appears that Ofc. Chris Marr of DBPD thinks such a law exists. This isn’t the first time that DBPD screwed over a Florida gun owner. Just recently, the agency illegally arrested a resident for openly carrying on his own property while protecting his daughter from an aggressive pit bull! It appears that Daytona Beach isn’t a safe place for gun owners.”

Immediately after the interaction, AmmoLand News contacted the media contact from the DBPD via email, phone calls, and text. We wanted to know if Officer Marr has been corrected on the law and how the department will ensure its officers will not repeat the same mistake. As of Sunday night, AmmoLand News has not gotten a response. AmmoLand News also contacted “On Patrol Live,” but our request for comment was ignored.

On Saturday, the show “On Patrol Live” did not mention the encounter. This encounter shows the dangers of police encounters when the officers do not know the law.

That's pretty bad...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

 

[Johnny Diamond]

When I was an E4 living in Fayetteville off post I pulled guard duty....barracks duty, twice (prior to post Commander change we were not a forward unit and I was immune due to my job) and let me remind any NCO's or non service members, if you were on duty the NCO slept as he pleased, an E6 forget about it and I would be dead tired after 24 hours of duty, had a LEO came to the door of my apartment banging on door or not with my fiance and a 2yr old baby girl I may well have answered door with my Remington 12 gauge?
Johnny


I'm not sure????


ETA: At that time life off post could be a crap shoot as to being safe or not .


~ strength and honor ~

 

[Sasquatch]

@Miami_JBT what is being done to correct the poor training of Florida LE? Has the organization you're part of pushed for any outreach / offered training to Florida LE agencies to ensure compliance, or have you backed lawsuits when they screw up, with the goal of mandatory retraining for all active officers?

"more training" is easy to say but almost impossible to put into practice, especially when a lot of the new mandatory training shit in almost every industry is DEI driven social justice nonsense, instead of practical knowledge and skills.

How many agencies put word out when Florida went to permitless / constitutional concealed carry? How many people have been jammed up for unlawful carry of a firearm that turned out to be lawful? Sounds like Florida has real problems - what's it going to take to fix those problems?

 

[Mohawk600]

Maybe cycleguy should be a cop in Florida

 

[jrbfishn]

The mental gymnastics in this thread to justify the airman getting shot are mind blowing.
The man had a right to have a gun in his appartment, in his hand or otherwise.
We have NO information about anyone that may have been threatening the airman either.
It is being ASSUMED he heard and understood it was a cop beating on his door. Some don't hear so well, like me. Even with my hearing aids, there are a lot of things I still can't hear that some people can. And for many years before I got them, I had no clue how bad my hearing was.
In the video, he made no threatening gestures with the gun. Even as the officer drew and fired at him, he still did not use it to threaten the officer.

At least in Texas, having a gun in your hand, in your own home or yard as long as you don't do anything threateing to anyone, is NOT a crime.
It Texas, to the best of my knowledge, if I have a gun of any type in my hand, anywhere, pointed at the ground and not at someone and I have made no threats to anyone about using it on them, it is not automatically considered "threat of deadly force" against another person. Having a gun in your hand does not make you danger. Otherwise, anyone anywhere that has a gun in their hands is subject to being shot.

Regardless of case law. Or Law for that matter. When the over riding concern is that Law Enforcement is safe at the expense of innocent citizens lives, we are in a sorry state and need to start over.
Was he smart to answer the door with a gun in his hand pointed at the ground, which he is legally entitled to do? Maybe, maybe not.
Did he deserve in that instance to die for it just because the sight of it scared a cop? NO.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

 

[Mohawk600]

 

[Miami_JBT]

@Miami_JBT what is being done to correct the poor training of Florida LE? Has the organization you're part of pushed for any outreach / offered training to Florida LE agencies to ensure compliance, or have you backed lawsuits when they screw up, with the goal of mandatory retraining for all active officers?

"more training" is easy to say but almost impossible to put into practice, especially when a lot of the new mandatory training shit in almost every industry is DEI driven social justice nonsense, instead of practical knowledge and skills.

How many agencies put word out when Florida went to permitless / constitutional concealed carry? How many people have been jammed up for unlawful carry of a firearm that turned out to be lawful? Sounds like Florida has real problems - what's it going to take to fix those problems?

I've reached out to correct this issue via training. But the main problem is FDLE's CJSTC. FDLE is the state agency that standardizes training and sets minimum requirements. FDLE is known as Forget Doing Law Enforcement for a reason.

This is a multifaceted issue in Florida and a lot of it has to be corrected from the top down. Starting with the way the laws are written, followed by training, followed by public perception.

 

[leVieux]

I've reached out to correct this issue via training. But the main problem is FDLE's CJSTC. FDLE is the state agency that standardizes training and sets minimum requirements. FDLE is known as Forget Doing Law Enforcement for a reason.

This is a multifaceted issue in Florida and a lot of it has to be corrected from the top down. Starting with the way the laws are written, followed by training, followed by public perception.

<>

We here in LA have similar problems.

I keep hearing of folks arrested, beaten-up by Cops, jailed, guns confiscated, etc. for “Open Carry”.

BUT,

“Open Carry” is not illegal here, and NEVER WAS !

We all know & understand that our Police have the dual duties of “Law Enforcement” and providing for our Public Safety.

Our Legislature has “gone overboard” trying to correct this. Even our Federal Judges are doing their parts.

Our State Constitution & several newer laws all prohibit this, but it continues.

Perhaps better pay & career paths would attract better quality Officers ?

<>

 

[A1Oni]

There is an ignore button for people like the one you reference

free entertainment is free entertainment.

 

[A1Oni]

You fell into the hands of a troll once again by responding to a childish insult. A10ni is a troll. Adds nothing to the site and only perpetuates already overly drawn out threads by tossing an insult or two and having someone else take the bait.

you are simply mad because I speak the truth.

 

[Miami_JBT]

For anyone wondering:

The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office initially said Duran fired in self defense after encountering a man with a gun, but Sheriff Eric Aden fired Duran on May 31 after an internal investigation concluded his life was not in danger when he opened fire. Outside law enforcement experts have also said that an officer cannot shoot only because a possible suspect is holding a gun if there is no threat.

MSN

 

[Mohawk600]

free entertainment is free entertainment.

True

 

[cycleguy2300]

For anyone wondering:

The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office initially said Duran fired in self defense after encountering a man with a gun, but Sheriff Eric Aden fired Duran on May 31 after an internal investigation concluded his life was not in danger when he opened fire. Outside law enforcement experts have also said that an officer cannot shoot only because a possible suspect is holding a gun if there is no threat.

MSN

He bowed to the alter of the woke...

Its really sad to see some of yall willfully ignorant and using your anti-authority bias to erode your own right to self defense. It is foolish and stupid.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

 

[Gordo]

Some people here really got into the movie 'Judge Dredd' way too much.