I have mixed feelings on this....

[cycleguy2300]

So this is the thing... in every instance you have interpreted unknown actions and sounds to nefarious motives. You don't know if they're hiding drugs, you just assume that because apparently everyone you encounter is a bad guy. They might be putting their clothes on or hiding sex toys, who knows? Not you.
You (and others) assume he heard, knew or should have known (wtf?) a police officer was at his door but regardless shouldn't answer his door armed. Says who? Fear of being murdered by police? Again I say WTF?

I'm done trying to explain how it looks and feels to non-LE but the LEO responses in this thread have left me disillusioned and far less trusting of LE who apparently think the power entrusted to them is a license to kill. It's f**cking not.

Dude,

When the door opens and it smells like Willie and Snoop Dogg were hanging out together I make reasonable inferences when I see red eyes and non-dusty spots on the coffee table... people don't hide sex toys as often as you might think

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[Renegade]

I put forth that opening the door with a gun in hand is threatening, hostile and attacking.

Professionals with more information than you or I will ever have, that spent weeks interviewing witnesses, going over evidence, concluded the shooting was not reasonable response.

You need to trust the police on this one.

 

[Renegade]

Got you.

Karen is the problem here. Everyone else is a victim.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I myself want Karen imprisoned more than anybody. She got Airman killed, officer fired, etc., and ruined many lives. She will likely face nothing. Life is not fair.

She seems to have caused this whole thing to happen due to her lies, hopefully she gets Epstein's cell

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[cycleguy2300]

Professionals with more information than you or I will ever have, that spent weeks interviewing witnesses, going over evidence, concluded the shooting was not reasonable response.

You need to trust the police on this one.

I cannot fathom any information that could make the least bit of difference in the justification of that shooting that isnt public already and so I am left to defend the deputy, just as I would if a doordasher had been in the same position and reacted the same way. The unreasonable action was displaying a gun, in hand, when opening a door to anyone who had EVERY right to be at the door knocking whether LE or not.

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[Renegade]

She seems to have caused this whole thing to happen due to her lies, hopefully she gets Epstein's cell

The apt manager (Karen2) also made incorrect statements to the police, and was also a big part of problem,,

She was also the one to call 911 even though she had zero first hand knowledge.

 

[cycleguy2300]

The apt manager (Karen2) also made incorrect statements to the police, and was also a big part of problem,,

She was also the one to call 911 even though she had zero first hand knowledge.

3rd hand info is a big red flag, but we still have to go knock... this was about as shitty as it can get.

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[Tblack89]

"if"?

ROFL

Was she charged or found guilty of it? Until then unfortunately it’s a if, I’m not a judge or jury so I can’t find her guilty or penalize her. It’s the innocent until proven guilty part that makes it a if. My personal feelings or opinions mean nothing as previously stated, nor have I stated any of my personal opinions or feelings.

I personally believe that if people would base this situation off law and law only it would be a much more civil discussion rather than a attempted bashing.

Has the officer been found guilty? No. Him being fired doesn’t mean he broke the law, simply means he was fired. The general public is unable to prosecute someone outside of the law without consequence.

 

[Renegade]

The unreasonable action was displaying a gun, in hand, when opening a door to anyone who had EVERY right to be at the door knocking whether LE or not.

As Havok1 said, you are only seeing 1 side. Airman also had EVERY right to open door in his own abode with gun in hand. This is not even debatable it is so legal.

As an LEO, you have to be able to understand how law-abiding citizens might lawfully react/behave. You do not seem to see that at all. How far would you take this? What if he was unarmed and had wife was behind him with knife (within 21 feet) cause she is cutting steaks? Justified to shoot her too?

This whole mentality of open fire on anyone armed is insanity and why so many cops are in prison.

 

[Renegade]

Was she charged or found guilty of it? Until then unfortunately it’s a if, I’m not a judge or jury so I can’t find her guilty or penalize her. It’s the innocent until proven guilty part that makes it a if. My personal feelings or opinions mean nothing as previously stated, nor have I stated any of my personal opinions or feelings.

I personally believe that if people would base this situation off law and law only it would be a much more civil discussion rather than a attempted bashing.

Has the officer been found guilty? No. Him being fired doesn’t mean he broke the law, simply means he was fired. The general public is unable to prosecute someone outside of the law without consequence.

Shooting was May 3. Nobody charged yet, no lawsuits filed AFAIK. Officer was only fired this week. Process is just starting.

eta

Many of her statements are not "if", they are verifiably false. Will not surprise me if Crump sue apt complex/manager. They have money and will settle.

 

[Tblack89]

Shooting was May 3. Nobody charged yet, no lawsuits filed AFAIK. Officer was only fired this week. Process is just starting.

eta

Many of her statements are not "if", they are verifiably false. Will not surprise me if Crump sue apt complex/manager. They have money and will settle.

I personally haven’t read her statements and the video I saw was just the cop knocking and the shooting, main reason for my reply on her.

I would agree if they are verifiably false then they will settle. I won’t hold my breath on criminal charges for her unfortunately.

 

[leVieux]

It was just an observation from the article. More so just pointing it out for the people defending the officer ignoring all the red flags in the information he was given prior to going and shooting a guy who was supposedly beating up his chick despite actually being home alone.

<>

Yes, understood; but the murder was not justified in any way.

<>

 

[toddnjoyce]

…There is no legitimate reason to open a door to a common area displaying a gun in hand …

And therein lie the problem. Opening the door.

Just ask Russell King. Or David Wilson.

What all y’all are arguing about is generalities in a specific case that hasn’t even resulted in charges yet.

The deputy in this case was fired because the evidence didn’t support his statement to the OIS team and his admitted personal technique was a violation of departmental policy. That has no bearing on the governing Florida statutes and none of that has to do with whether or not either party could lawfully do what they did.

There’s a quote from a guy named Thomas P.M Barnett about wanting infantrymen young, fit, and slightly pissed off while wanting a cop to be older, wiser, and of discerning judgment.

This particular LEO was challenged in the wisdom and discernment category. That doesn’t mean his actions were unlawful.

 

[Renegade]

The deputy in this case was fired because the evidence didn’t support his statement to the OIS team and his admitted personal technique was a violation of departmental policy. That has no bearing on the governing Florida statutes and none of that has to do with whether or not either party could lawfully do what they did.

They said why he was fired - he shot and killed someone who was not a hostile, and thus his DF was not reasonable. Nothing to do with his statements or technique.

The objective facts as discovered in this administrative investigation do not show Mr. Fortson made hostile, attacking movements, and therefore, the objective facts do not support the use of deadly force as an appropriate response to Mr. Fortson’s actions. Deputy Eddie Duran’s use of deadly force was not objectively reasonable.

Now criminal investigators may see it differently, but this statement by his own department is going to be tough to overcome.

 

[Havok1]

Dude,

When the door opens and it smells like Willie and Snoop Dogg were hanging out together I make reasonable inferences when I see red eyes and non-dusty spots on the coffee table... people don't hide sex toys as often as you might think

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was there any report that it smelled like weed when the door was opened or is this just more of you trying to justify the shooting with things that weren’t a factor that day?

<>

Yes, understood; but the murder was not justified in any way.

<>

I wasn’t justifying it. more so the opposite. It’s quite possible the other apartment was where the problem was coming from. Not certainly, but we know the guy home alone wasn’t beating up on his gf.

 

[cycleguy2300]

was there any report that it smelled like weed when the door was opened or is this just more of you trying to justify the shooting with things that weren’t a factor that day?

Catch up with the conversation
Go reread what I was replying to and what they were replying to...

"He didnt hear"
-replied with anecdotes about people hiding their dope then saying they didnt here us knocking

"but you are just thinking the worst of people"
- smell, sights, training, experience tell me people frequently lie about hearing us knock.



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[leVieux]

<>

Sometimes things aren’t as they appear.

Let me relate a story of a nighttime traffic stop in New Orleans, as told directly to me by the well known-to-me Black driver.

Cop: Are there any weapons in there?

Driver: Officer, I have a .45, a .357, & there are 2 AR’s in my trunk. Would you like to see them?

C: Hand on gun. No, just don’t reach for anything. This is a very expensive car. Do you have papers for it ?

D: Yes. It is a 12 cylinder Mercedes.

Officer gets back-up, who gets car papers from compartment. .

C: There is no lien on this Mercedes; you must be a drug dealer; are there drugs in this car?

D: There are small amounts of drugs in my case in the trunk.

C: You are admitting ?

D; Officer, I am a Physician Professor of Anesthesiology at University Hospital, on my way to an emergency. Would you like to follow me in?. After the emergency we can go to my office and I’ll show you my licenses. I give people drugs every day, it is part of my job there.

The Officer was Black, too.

No one got shot.

I’ll admit that, had this happened before the U S Federal Judge Barbier had issued two orders specifically prohibiting NOPD from confiscating guns from non-criminal citizens, it may have ended differently.

<>

 

[jrbfishn]

What about the knock?

Typically, I am pro LE. They do a dirty, sometimes nasty, dangerous and inherantly unsafe job that most will not, even if they could.
Most often, I will be on the same side as you, but not this one.
You keep commoing back to "the knock", the " police knock".
I am sorry to disappoint you, but there is no such thing as a "police knock". Never has been. And yes, I have had police knock on my door. More than once. And there ain't no way on God's earth to to iif they were cops or not.
Even if there was an official "police knock", how long do you think it would take for home invaders to immitate it? Or just your jerk friend that wanted to mess with you? Is it against the Law to use the official police knock if you are not LE?

And as far as "he had to know" it was a cop?
If the cop hears muffled sounds, there is a likely hood that the occupants also heard muffled sounds.
If he can't see the cop, or see through walls, he doesn't know who is yelling "LE, open up".
What if he is hearing impaired like me? It don't go away when a cop shows up I promise you.

Deputy should be innocent because he was scared? It's a scary, dangerous job. Period. If cops get to shoot because they are scared, there are going to be a LOT of dead bodies.

I'm sorry, but I am gonna have to disagree on this. LE, ALL LE, should be held to the same standard of "shoot, no shoot" as everyone else. If it would have been a bad shoot for me, it was to him.
It is an UNSAFE job. Period. Going to work puts your life at risk. Any cop that does not understand and accept that is in the wrong line of work. Whe a cop's life means more than ours, case law or no, something is freakin WRONG. When cops can kill because a person doing something legal scared them, something is DAMNED sure WRONG.

Cops are supposed to be there to make sure others don't do that to us, they should not get a pass when they do it. Period. They are not supposed to be wearing a badge so they are safe, they are supposed to be wearing it so WE are.

At least are the legal side like Cycleguy2000, I have met him, good guy, I liked him. He's welcome to go with me to the gum club I belong to anytime.
And you, I expected something better from you than "police knock".

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[jrbfishn]

I put forth that opening the door with a gun in hand is threatening, hostile and attacking.

There is no legitimate reason to open a door to a common area displaying a gun in hand in response to someone knocking on a door (much less to a deputy who was loudly, clearly and plainly announcing himself) and without legitimate reason, is is more than fair to presume he had illegitimate reasons to display the handgun.

How fast can someone point and shoot (hip) from the man's position? 1/4 of a second? Definitely less than 1/2 of a second... even if the deputy had drawn, aimed and NOT shot, but instead gave commands, he would not be able to react to the man's "hostile and attacking" actions which painted the deputy into having only one reasonable option.

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Fair question, what is a legitimate reason? Personally, I can think of several. That a cop would have no knowledge of.
In Texas, IIRC, having a gun in your hand, pointed in a safe direction, not at anyone, is legally considered a threat by itself. If I see someone in such a circumstance and shoot them because it scared me, why would it not be illegal for a cop to do so?

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[Tblack89]

Typically, I am pro LE. They do a dirty, sometimes nasty, dangerous and inherantly unsafe job that most will not, even if they could.
Most often, I will be on the same side as you, but not this one.
You keep commoing back to "the knock", the " police knock".
I am sorry to disappoint you, but there is no such thing as a "police knock". Never has been. And yes, I have had police knock on my door. More than once. And there ain't no way on God's earth to to iif they were cops or not.
Even if there was an official "police knock", how long do you think it would take for home invaders to immitate it? Or just your jerk friend that wanted to mess with you? Is it against the Law to use the official police knock if you are not LE?

And as far as "he had to know" it was a cop?
If the cop hears muffled sounds, there is a likely hood that the occupants also heard muffled sounds.
If he can't see the cop, or see through walls, he doesn't know who is yelling "LE, open up".
What if he is hearing impaired like me? It don't go away when a cop shows up I promise you.

Deputy should be innocent because he was scared? It's a scary, dangerous job. Period. If cops get to shoot because they are scared, there are going to be a LOT of dead bodies.

I'm sorry, but I am gonna have to disagree on this. LE, ALL LE, should be held to the same standard of "shoot, no shoot" as everyone else. If it would have been a bad shoot for me, it was to him.
It is an UNSAFE job. Period. Going to work puts your life at risk. Any cop that does not understand and accept that is in the wrong line of work. Whe a cop's life means more than ours, case law or no, something is freakin WRONG. When cops can kill because a person doing something legal scared them, something is DAMNED sure WRONG.

Cops are supposed to be there to make sure others don't do that to us, they should not get a pass when they do it. Period. They are not supposed to be wearing a badge so they are safe, they are supposed to be wearing it so WE are.

At least are the legal side like Cycleguy2000, I have met him, good guy, I liked him. He's welcome to go with me to the gum club I belong to anytime.
And you, I expected something better from you than "police knock".

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I do not keep commenting on the police knock, I said you can hear it. Another gentleman said he can’t hear the ups guy. I then said I would get that checked out as it could be a safety concern if there was a fire and he couldn’t hear a smoke detector or a neighbor knocking to inform him. Havok said smoke detectors are louder and I asked him what about a neighbor knocking. Re read what was said.