HEB

[ScottDLS]

Yes, just like most other states.

That is what I tried to tell everyone on 'that other forum' for the last 20 years. Unfortunately, the person that helped draft the 30.06/7 law text thought that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I actually did some pretty extensive research on the history of the Trespass penal code in Texas and I think much of the problem traces back to a bad opinion by the old Democrat Texas AG Morales in 1996 after the CHL law which he opposed. He posited that someone could put up a Trespass notice 'sign' and that would allow the State to prosecute someone passing it for a Class A Trespass while armed. What everyone seems to ignore is that no one entering publicly accessible businesses had ever been prosecuted for trespass before without being first asked to leave, and even then police would have to come and issue a written trespass notice for the person to even be prosecuted if they came back later. No one could point to a previous case where a 'sign' prohibited some conduct in a publicly open premises and someone was prosecuted for trespass for passing the sign while engaging in said conduct. But 'someone' thought it necessary to codify this new crime in PC 30.06.

 

[leVieux]

That is what I tried to tell everyone on 'that other forum' for the last 20 years. Unfortunately, the person that helped draft the 30.06/7 law text thought that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I actually did some pretty extensive research on the history of the Trespass penal code in Texas and I think much of the problem traces back to a bad opinion by the old Democrat Texas AG Morales in 1996 after the CHL law which he opposed. He posited that someone could put up a Trespass notice 'sign' and that would allow the State to prosecute someone passing it for a Class A Trespass while armed. What everyone seems to ignore is that no one entering publicly accessible businesses had ever been prosecuted for trespass before without being first asked to leave, and even then police would have to come and issue a written trespass notice for the person to even be prosecuted if they came back later. No one could point to a previous case where a 'sign' prohibited some conduct in a publicly open premises and someone was prosecuted for trespass for passing the sign while engaging in said conduct. But 'someone' thought it necessary to codify this new crime in PC 30.06.

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Agreed, I never understood why the Legislature would ever want to embrace a Tar-Baby like those signs.

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[DoubleDuty]

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The Texas Legislature, in their usual “try to satisfy all the lobbyists mode” have created a big mess with all their signs and attached legal penalties.

Demand they start-over and satisfy Texas Citizens, not “industry lobbyists” !

We now have decades of data to prove that the signs do not deter criminals and ONLY disarm the WRONG Citizens !

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And other States have no legal no gun signs and no law abiding people are going wild west on anyone.

 

[leVieux]

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When I first lived in Texas about 55 years ago, I was astounded to find that Texas was one of the very first “gun control’’ STATES.

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[A1Oni]

 

[leVieux]

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My Lawyer Friends (Yes, I admit I’ve got them), all say that “day 1” in Law school they learned that “One can’t legislate by posting a sign!”

Then, The Texas Legislature made it possible & easy !

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[leVieux]

And other States have no legal no gun signs and no law abiding people are going wild west on anyone.

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I seem to recall from decades back when I lived there, that in FL, “trespass with a “firearm” is a FELONY.

Also, it is a FELONY to “molest a crab trap”.

All States have some zany laws.

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[ILexpatriot]

If you think your signs suck.. In Illinois, after we got concealed carry passed into law, one of the compromises was a sign that businesses could post to prevent carry there. The rules for the sign were VERY specific. And unless the absolutely correct sign was posted, in the absolutely correct spot, it was invalid. Some businesses put up a modified sign to try to ride the fence. They had a sign to placate the Nancy's. But it was invalid to keep the gun guys happy. And some places played games with where it was posted, for various reasons.
It was a cluster flop. And police had no idea. In their mind, if there was a sign, you were NOT allowed to be there. And don't bother citing the actual law..
The only real solution was to either leave it in the car, or carry it properly concealed. What they didn't know never hurt them.

 

[benenglish]

In Illinois, after we got concealed carry passed into law, one of the compromises was a sign that businesses could post to prevent carry there. The rules for the sign were VERY specific. And unless the absolutely correct sign was posted, in the absolutely correct spot, it was invalid. Some businesses put up a modified sign to try to ride the fence. They had a sign to placate the Nancy's. But it was invalid to keep the gun guys happy.

That's what we have here, minus the "correct spot" part.

 

[HKSig]

That's what we have here, minus the "correct spot" part.

Don't forget that ALL entrances have to be posted. A certain medical building only has one entrance posted, and I don't go in that entrance...

 

[ILexpatriot]

Don't forget that ALL entrances have to be posted. A certain medical building only has one entrance posted, and I don't go in that entrance...

Alot of the same games.. Our sign had to have a solid black line border, to specific dimensions. One of the favorite "fence sitter" games was to buy a legal sign, then cut the border off, making it invalid.

 

[General Zod]

Alot of the same games.. Our sign had to have a solid black line border, to specific dimensions. One of the favorite "fence sitter" games was to buy a legal sign, then cut the border off, making it invalid.

Ours have specific wording and require a 1" letter height, and the sign prohibiting concealed carry is not the same as the sign prohibiting open carry - both must be posted for all licensed carry to be prohibited. Also the Spanish version has to be posted. Being in the sign industry, I've seen attempts to combine the signs (usually sold by out-of-state suppliers) so pay attention to the wording on the signs you see down here.

 

[ILexpatriot]

Ours have specific wording and require a 1" letter height, and the sign prohibiting concealed carry is not the same as the sign prohibiting open carry - both must be posted for all licensed carry to be prohibited. Also the Spanish version has to be posted. Being in the sign industry, I've seen attempts to combine the signs (usually sold by out-of-state suppliers) so pay attention to the wording on the signs you see down here.

Yes. I need to re-read it all again. We covered it in our LTC class, but it's all fading fast..

 

[Tnhawk]

After attending a VFW meeting last night I stopped at HEB. Like previous trips I didn't notice any signs as I entered the store, however I wasn't searching for signs. Made my purchase and left.

 

[striker55]

Don't forget that ALL entrances have to be posted. A certain medical building only has one entrance posted, and I don't go in that entrance...

Years ago that was Katy Mills Mall, enter through Bass Pro Shop and no sign.

 

[benenglish]

Being in the sign industry, I've seen attempts to combine the signs (usually sold by out-of-state suppliers)

There's a medical office building I visit weekly that does not prohibit concealed carry. One of the businesses wants to, though, and it's been interesting to watch their signage evolve over the years.

At one point, they posted 15 or 16 signs, iirc, sourced from someone who had no idea what they were doing. All the signs were obviously flawed. It looked like they had bought every sign on some catalog page, hoping something would work. It was literally a "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" approach.

BTW, the place in question is an imaging center, one of the few places that can make a logical case to prohibit carry. I don't hold it against them; I just wish they'd get their signage right.

 

[leVieux]

There's a medical office building I visit weekly that does not prohibit concealed carry. One of the businesses wants to, though, and it's been interesting to watch their signage evolve over the years.

At one point, they posted 15 or 16 signs, iirc, sourced from someone who had no idea what they were doing. All the signs were obviously flawed. It looked like they had bought every sign on some catalog page, hoping something would work. It was literally a "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" approach.

BTW, the place in question is an imaging center, one of the few places that can make a logical case to prohibit carry. I don't hold it against them; I just wish they'd get their signage right.

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Ben, there is an important technical point here. We have been warned that a powerful magnetic field can cause a striker-fired pistol to have an AD.

IIRC, when dealing w/ prison guards at both UTMB (to which the big TX Prison Hospital is attached) & UTHSC-Hermann Memorial, we kept the GLOCKS etc. out but allowed 1911’s & revolvers near. Same at LSU ILH & UMCLANO.

No ferrous metals can go into the actual MRI room. A number of fatalities have ben reported from innocent looking items flying through the air. One fairly recent was a steel wire Oxygen bottle dolly. The bottle was AL alloy, but the little dolly was steel & killed a child.

The stronger the magnet, the larger the restricted area must be.

Personally, disarmed to enter as I could have been called into the MRI room had there been a medical emergency.

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[benenglish]

We have been warned that a powerful magnetic field can cause a striker-fired pistol to have an AD.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

A number of fatalities have ben reported from innocent looking items flying through the air.

Recent story or meme or screenshot I read somewhere, probably here in the Man Cave, was about a patient who went into an MRI after swearing he had no metal on him. He thought he was telling the truth. However, the butt plug he had inserted, though advertised as 100% silicone, actually had a ferrous metal component inside. The entire thing shot straight up into his abdomen before the staff could do an emergency shutdown. I assume there's a big red button somewhere to do that but it takes a tenth of a second to hit something like that under the best of circumstances; by that time, the damage was done.

We've also recently seen a case in the news where an LAPD officer, as part of a team executing a search warrant, ignored warnings from staff and walked, carrying his rifle, into a room where an MRI was in use. The amount of damage to the machinery was huge though I don't remember if the patient was hurt or even if a patient was present. I did read that the officer just retrieved his gun and walked out.

So, yeah, I have no beef with an imaging center that wants to prohibit guns on the premises. There are good, logical, practical reasons to do so.

 

[leVieux]

Unlike electricity, there is no quick shutoff. Magnets are from 0.12T to 3T, very different.

 

[benenglish]

Unlike electricity, there is no quick shutoff. Magnets are from 0.12T to 3T, very different.

Really? I don't know where I got the idea they used electromagnets.