"He should have shot him" "Too bad they didn't die" "He only killed one"

[matefrio]

Kinda like yelling jump, jump, jump......when someone is threatening to jump off a bridge or building.......

Yep, or calling someone who backed off the ledge a coward for not jumping in the news article about the rescue.

 

[jrbfishn]

Most people have a different mind set than a lot people 100 years ago about killing. Then, killing in self defense was a perfectly acceptable thing. Killing in defense and murder were separate things. Killing in defense was not murder.
These days, most people are taught that killing for any reason is wrong. Hence, we are taught that we should shoot to stop, not to kill. And why people scream"murderer" at the person that just shot poor little Johnny. Even though Johnny just shot 4 people.
Even a lot of combat soldiers and cops that have taken a life find it hard to reconcile the difference in their minds. Causes some otherwise good people, needed people the leave those services.
Pop always told me that the hardest part of killing was living with it afterwards. For most people, that is true.
Of all the folks on here that I have met in person, I can't think of any that I did not like. I sincerly hope you never have to find out.
For any that do, on the forum or off, my deepest sympathy. I wish you well.
If someone gives me no choice, may God have mercy. I can live with it.

 

[txinvestigator]

Most people have a different mind set than a lot people 100 years ago about killing. Then, killing in self defense was a perfectly acceptable thing. Killing in defense and murder were separate things. Killing in defense was not murder.
These days, most people are taught that killing for any reason is wrong. Hence, we are taught that we should shoot to stop, not to kill.

I completely disagree with your premise regarding how people feel or think about killing. And that has NOTHING to do with why we are taught to shoot to stop.

Even a lot of combat soldiers and cops that have taken a life find it hard to reconcile the difference in their minds. Causes some otherwise good people, needed people the leave those services.
Pop always told me that the hardest part of killing was living with it afterwards. For most people, that is true.
Of all the folks on here that I have met in person, I can't think of any that I did not like. I sincerly hope you never have to find out.
For any that do, on the forum or off, my deepest sympathy. I wish you well.
If someone gives me no choice, may God have mercy. I can live with it.

Agree with all of that.

 

[RACER X]

Good topic

When I posted up about my friend who recently shot and missed an intruder IN his house

People on another forum (motorcycle - gun section) were saying that he was stupid and trigger happy (since we've done a few IDPA matches) for firing.

Yes guy barged into house, door was opened for him by M-I-L , but he shoved door open.

Cops had no beef w him shooting at him

so there's the flip side, armchair quarterbacks even in the gun world

 

[matefrio]

Good topic

When I posted up about my friend who recently shot and missed an intruder IN his house

People on another forum (motorcycle - gun section) were saying that he was stupid and trigger happy (since we've done a few IDPA matches) for firing.

Yes guy barged into house, door was opened for him by M-I-L , but he shoved door open.

Cops had no beef w him shooting at him

so there's the flip side, armchair quarterbacks even in the gun world

For some reason on the Internet it's easier to criticize than agree or even, heaven forbid, sympathize. Much of it is the anonymity of the medium but sometimes it's scary.

 

[LOCKHART]

I have had my concealed weapons license since 1999, and I've only had to use my
handgun one time, in self defense, and when I shot that bastard, I cared not a whit
whether he died or not! He was a low-life then and is probably still one! He did
survive the shooting, which is par with the odds. More than 80% of all people shot
with handguns DO survive the incident. As far as I know, he is probably still somewhere
incarcerated in the criminal justice system. I really dont care! He could die tomorrow, and
it wouldnt bother me in the least. Dont overthink this, theres alot of folks out there that
need shooting.

 

[London]

Most people have a different mind set than a lot people 100 years ago about killing. Then, killing in self defense was a perfectly acceptable thing. Killing in defense and murder were separate things. Killing in defense was not murder.
These days, most people are taught that killing for any reason is wrong. Hence, we are taught that we should shoot to stop, not to kill. And why people scream"murderer" at the person that just shot poor little Johnny. Even though Johnny just shot 4 people.
Even a lot of combat soldiers and cops that have taken a life find it hard to reconcile the difference in their minds. Causes some otherwise good people, needed people the leave those services.
Pop always told me that the hardest part of killing was living with it afterwards. For most people, that is true.
Of all the folks on here that I have met in person, I can't think of any that I did not like. I sincerly hope you never have to find out.
For any that do, on the forum or off, my deepest sympathy. I wish you well.
If someone gives me no choice, may God have mercy. I can live with it.

Well said.

 

[Renegade]

Most people have a different mind set than a lot people 100 years ago about killing. Then, killing in self defense was a perfectly acceptable thing. Killing in defense and murder were separate things. Killing in defense was not murder.
These days, most people are taught that killing for any reason is wrong. Hence, we are taught that we should shoot to stop, not to kill. And why people scream"murderer" at the person that just shot poor little Johnny. Even though Johnny just shot 4 people.

Yep, 60 years ago, drop an A-bomb and kill 100,000, no problem. Fire bomb a city and kill twice as many, Good job.

 

[LOCKHART]

That's total war, renegade. Little bit of a difference there.

 

[Renegade]

That's total war, renegade. Little bit of a difference there.

Human life has the same value whether war or peace. Anyway that is not the point.

The point is values on taking life have changed. What you could do 60 years ago as a soldier or civilian is much different than what you can do today.

 

[jrbfishn]

I completely disagree with your premise regarding how people feel or think about killing. And that has NOTHING to do with why we are taught to shoot to stop.

I see very few people quote " thall shall not commit murder". Instead, thall shall not KILL, is most often quoted and what is mostly written.
Most of the theologists I have spoken too say it was originally "murder".
Saying you will shoot to kill is pretty much taboo, to a lot of people here as well. I was always taught to make the first shot count, you may not get a second. Now, people are taught that shooting to kill, even in defense is wrong. Just "stop" the threat. Over zealous DAs with a sense of self rightousness don't help. Civil courts that feel sorry for crimminals don't either. Shooting to stop makes you look like you care for the poor soul that is trying to harm you. Shooting to kill is cruel and heartless. Even if you have reason. But a lot of that is from people that really don't understand the mindset of violent people to begin with. People that think everyone can and should be as gentle as them and they can "fix" the ones that aren't.
As for why LE are taught to stop the threat and not to kill the threat, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. And I respect that.
Much of what you post, I agree with. What little I disagree with is mostly just us looking from different sides of the window. He looking in, one out.
But, if I have reason to shoot, I will still shoot to make the first shot count. With follow ups as necessary. If they are still alive when they stop threatening, fine. If not, that's fine too. They made their choice.

from an non-recovering coffeeholic

 

[bullgator]

The only 3 words to consider when protecting yourself, family and persons needing protection: "Control, Stop and Neutralize the situation. . When achieved, stop shooting. 3 words to hopefully to live by when forced into a live or die perceived situation while in fear for your life.

 

[35Remington]

When the sheepdog starts [to] enjoy[] hunting wolves more than protecting the flock[,] it's hard to tell the two apart.

Quoted for truth. That's a really great line.