"He should have shot him" "Too bad they didn't die" "He only killed one"

[matefrio]

I disagree. The perp's fate is nobody's doing but their own.

We agree. Perp made the decision and the victim had no other choice but to defend themselves.

The victim is a victim of circumstances beyond their control except they decided to survive.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Interesting conversation. Allow me to offer a different point of view. I know this point of view will shock liberals and probably make the gun crowd look bad like your OP mentions. Chris Kyle said when asked if he had any regrets about anyone he shot, his response was something to the effect of he's more bothered by the shots he didn't make. The fear that those persons later might kill a soldier.

I'm not advocating that I should play God, but frankly I don't lose any sleep when I read stories about these predators getting shot. And yes, when they survive, I sometimes wonder what crimes will they go on to commit. Who knows, they may give their life to Christ and become and upstanding citizen. Recidivism rates say otherwise. I leave you with a real world example of one of the most famous self defense shootings ever. Bernard Goetz. HE took a lot of flack for standing over one of the guys who tried to rob him and said something like "you still ok, how about another shot". The media crucified him for that. Those words probably played a huge role in the civil judgment he ended up paying. But the interesting part of the story to me is the part that rarely got told- one of the bad guys who lived through that went on to violently rape a woman later.

I've said it many times here and I am a firm believer of it:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Interesting conversation. Allow me to offer a different point of view. I know this point of view will shock liberals and probably make the gun crowd look bad like your OP mentions. Chris Kyle said when asked if he had any regrets about anyone he shot, his response was something to the effect of he's more bothered by the shots he didn't make. The fear that those persons later might kill a soldier.

I'm not advocating that I should play God, but frankly I don't lose any sleep when I read stories about these predators getting shot. And yes, when they survive, I sometimes wonder what crimes will they go on to commit. Who knows, they may give their life to Christ and become and upstanding citizen. Recidivism rates say otherwise. I leave you with a real world example of one of the most famous self defense shootings ever. Bernard Goetz. HE took a lot of flack for standing over one of the guys who tried to rob him and said something like "you still ok, how about another shot". The media crucified him for that. Those words probably played a huge role in the civil judgment he ended up paying. But the interesting part of the story to me is the part that rarely got told- one of the bad guys who lived through that went on to violently rape a woman later.

I've said it many times here and I am a firm believer of it:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Well put. Don't take me wrong.
My little confession does not mean I will not stop you by any means necessary

 

[Vaquero]

Evil exists. Some people need killing.
I don't like it, but I won't fight it.

Utah just made that pretty clear.
If someone is intent on harming me or mine and I'm sure and able, judge and jury not needed for their fate.
Mine shall hang in the balance.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Evil exists. Some people need killing.
I don't like it, but I won't fight it.

Utah just made that pretty clear.
If someone is intent on harming me or mine and I'm sure and able, judge and jury not needed for their fate.
Mine shall hang in the balance.

Like i said. I agree but you hurt mine we have a deadly problem. Isn't what the OP was talking about? Stopping a threat is one thing.
But enjoying it is another.

 

[Vaquero]

King David suffered remorse, but did the will of GOD in battle.
Samson
etc......


I will surely suffer at the hand of GOD.
Not by the will of satan.

 

[Vaquero]

No joy in harming nor killing on my part.
I've hunted a bit lately. Mostly for the fellowship.
I take no joy in the taking of a life.

 

[matefrio]

I'm not talking about the "In the moment" decisions. You're going to do what you're forced to do to survive.

Jerome Ersland is a good example what I'm talking about.

Prosecutors said Ersland was justified in firing the first shot but went too far when he grabbed a second gun and fired five more bullets into Parker's abdomen, wounds that the Medical Examiner's Office said killed him. Ersland claimed the unconscious teen was still moving.

Are we encouraging folks to go get a second gun and "finish them" when we say "Too bad he didn't die" or "Too bad some of the perps lived"? Isn't that a bit of blood lust?

http://news.yahoo.com/okla-pharmacist-sentenced-life-teens-death-205326502.html

 

[matefrio]

If folks can't understand what Jerome Ersland did morally wrong when he went back, got a 2nd gun and killed the kid on the floor, I guess they just won't understand my point that comments like in the subject are morally wrong either.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

I'm not talking about the "In the moment" decisions. You're going to do what you're forced to do to survive.

Jerome Ersland is a good example what I'm talking about.

Prosecutors said Ersland was justified in firing the first shot but went too far when he grabbed a second gun and fired five more bullets into Parker's abdomen, wounds that the Medical Examiner's Office said killed him. Ersland claimed the unconscious teen was still moving.

Are we encouraging folks to go get a second gun and "finish them" when we say "Too bad he didn't die" or "Too bad some of the perps lived"? Isn't that a bit of blood lust?

Okla. pharmacist sentenced to life in teen's death

back to my first post in the thread

 

[jrbfishn]

Killing the helpless, even an attacker to me is morally wrong. Down and still trying to attack, no problem. Harming the helpless, unless you know for a fact that they will do more harm in the future, pretty much puts you in with them.

 

[matefrio]

Killing the helpless, even an attacker to me is morally wrong. Down and still trying to attack, no problem. Harming the helpless, unless you know for a fact that they will do more harm in the future, pretty much puts you in with them.

Yep. My sub point is this.

My main point is not to encourage others into the situation by asking for further killing. At best comments like these make them more callous or doubt themselves and their decisions, at worse the next guy decides after reading comments like that it's best to finish the perp, his buddies and all his kin off for society.

 

[itchin]

Shooting a person with a handgun isn't all that easy. They can be
right in front of you and you can unload a magazine and miss every shot. Those who say should have shot him in the head is bs. If your under stress and firing a handgun at a moving target, you're lucky to get hits anywhere on the body much less head shots. Most of us are not well trained, and when you're in fear of your life most training goes right out the window. You will be shaking like a tree in a tornado.

 

[London]

Can't say I agree. Dead offenders is a good thing. The only people scared off by language like that are ethically weak and, at least passively, supportive of a degenerate society.

Now here come the "Look in the mirror" accusations...

 

[texas skeeter]

This is the danger zone.

Deadly force should be used to "stop" someone. Murder starts when we think "He deserves killing".

Justice is not ours to serve.

There have always been and will always be bad men.

When the sheepdog starts enjoying hunting wolves more than protecting the flock it's hard to tell the two apart.

A person coming at me or my Family to commit harm decided their own fate. Again I would not enjoy it but would do my best to put them down permanently. I have heard/read in numerous episodes/shootings, the officer say shoot to kill? Iam of the belief these days it's kill or be killed. Again too many episodes of the bad guy coming back. Does that make me judge/jury? Nope the perp decided his fate....

 

[txinvestigator]

A person coming at me or my Family to commit harm decided their own fate. Again I would not enjoy it but would do my best to put them down permanently. I have heard/read in numerous episodes/shootings, the officer say shoot to kill? Iam of the belief these days it's kill or be killed. Again too many episodes of the bad guy coming back. Does that make me judge/jury? Nope the perp decided his fate....

Ever used deadly force? Face to face? Ever watched the life leave a person's eyes?

It's easy to be "hard" from behind your computer. And I don't mean to single you out, yours was just the last post..

 

[V-Tach]

Kinda like yelling jump, jump, jump......when someone is threatening to jump off a bridge or building.......

 

[robertc1024]

I participated in the CHL discussion last week, so forgive me for being redundant, but I came to an epiphany. A fair number on here know me quite well. The only "fight" I've ever been in, in my life was in ~5th grade when Steve Lozi stole the spear grass I'd been collecting. I told him to give it back, which he didn't, and I gave him a bloody nose. I never want to have to shoot anybody, I don't want to kill them, but if they are threatening me, my family, or an innocent, I've made the decision to stop them. That is where my logical mind ends.

However - in that situation, you don't think you'll be hopped up on adrenaline? Empty a mag into someone? Frankly, I wouldn't find it surprising at all. Nor do I blame the cops who are in a high speed chase, finally get the guy, and are, if you're not in that situation, pretty rough with them. I've never been in that situation, hope I never will, and won't cast any stones at them.

 

[TheDan]

“I don't like repeat offenders; I like dead offenders.” ― Ted Nugent

 

[ROGER4314]

Good OP. There is not a molecule of my body that wants to harm anyone with a handgun. I hope that I never need to draw my pistol .......but I refuse to be a victim.

Flash