Handgun Induced Trauma

[M. Sage]

Not saying it would be my choice for carry, but are you trying to factually state a hollow point bullet from a .22 WMR will not kill you?

No. I'm saying that the penetration from a .22 WMR hollowpoint is not up to standard, and may not cause an incapacitating wound if you use it.

Your better bet is solid nose in that caliber, if you have to carry it (which I wouldn't).

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Ha, reading through this thread brings back memories. West Texas, whatever happened with that guy?

I think that was the moron that threatened to sue me into bankruptcy over banning him from the forum because he couldn't stop attacking forum members, derailing threads, and posting nonsense. Funny thing is, it turned out that guy was a Christian youth minister. Oh the internet.

 

[cuate]

Bullet & Caliber effectiveness against the human body (concerning repelling criminals) are like opinions & hineys ! Everyone has one. So here we go again....I submit that a 255 gr. flat nosed lead bullet in .45 Colt caliber will do the job as will about three fast 9mm JHPs in a thug's head or left hand shirt pocket area. Lest we forget, a 12 guage shotgun load in a lethal spot.

 

[M. Sage]

Bullet & Caliber effectiveness against the human body (concerning repelling criminals) are like opinions & hineys ! Everyone has one. So here we go again....I submit that a 255 gr. flat nosed lead bullet in .45 Colt caliber will do the job as will about three fast 9mm JHPs in a thug's head or left hand shirt pocket area. Lest we forget, a 12 guage shotgun load in a lethal spot.

What would make you think that one round of .45 Colt is as effective for self defense as three rounds of 9mm?

There are very few spots that you could put #8 that would be lethal in a timeframe less than a few days.

 

[Vaquero]

Hah! Yeah, nobody ever died from a blackpowder 36 navy revolver.

 

[M. Sage]

Hah! Yeah, nobody ever died from a blackpowder 36 navy revolver.

Not sure who that's directed at... Probably not me, since the .36 shoots .375" bullets...

 

[scap99]

Mas would shit a brick if he knew I carry hand loads, every damn day.

 

[Vaquero]

Not sure who that's directed at... Probably not me, since the .36 shoots .375" bullets...

Not directed at anyone really. I just find it ironic how these discussions seem to always turn to "what a bullet won't do".

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Not directed at anyone really. I just find it ironic how these discussions seem to always turn to "what a bullet won't do".

Well, they won't blow a man off his feet or leave two smoking shoes. I'm still looking for the caliber that does. LOL jk

 

[M. Sage]

Well, they won't blow a man off his feet or leave two smoking shoes. I'm still looking for the caliber that does. LOL jk

40mm Bofors.

 

[Flyingswords]

Well, they won't blow a man off his feet or leave two smoking shoes. I'm still looking for the caliber that does. LOL jk

I think a 155mm howitzer shell point blank may fit that bill. Except it may leave two smoking shoes with the feet still in them LOL

 

[M. Sage]

I think a 155mm howitzer shell point blank may fit that bill. Except it may leave two smoking shoes with the feet still in them LOL

That would definitely work.

 

[ATX_Shawn]

Im more of a visual kinda guy.. If your like me check out Brass Fetcher - YouTube

Slow motion ballistics gel tests with all kinds of calibers, loads, and barrel lengths.

 

[M. Sage]

Im more of a visual kinda guy.. If your like me check out Brass Fetcher - YouTube

Slow motion ballistics gel tests with all kinds of calibers, loads, and barrel lengths.

Their site is a good resource, too. There was another very good one, and it had good info on different shotgun loads (and why you should never rely on birdshot), but it's gone now.

 

[Gilgondorin]

I remember hearing from somewhere that one of the main reasons chamberings like .357 Magnum are so effective, is because (in addition to being powerful already) their rate of penetration is stoopid high -- and human skin, with its natural elasticity, takes enough of the initial hit that punching through it alone is roughly worth the first 4" of a block of ballistics gel, so when it hits, it begins the "optimal" stage of permanent channeling right inside the body. Can anyone substantiate/debunk this?

 

[M. Sage]

I remember hearing from somewhere that one of the main reasons chamberings like .357 Magnum are so effective, is because (in addition to being powerful already) their rate of penetration is stoopid high -- and human skin, with its natural elasticity, takes enough of the initial hit that punching through it alone is roughly worth the first 4" of a block of ballistics gel, so when it hits, it begins the "optimal" stage of permanent channeling right inside the body. Can anyone substantiate/debunk this?

What an "optimal" stage of wound tract? I don't have any data on how much of a gelatin block would be represented by the skin alone, even though it is an elastic and tough barrier.

.357 Magnum isn't that much faster than a lot of other calibers. Load lighter bullets in the other calibers, you can get .357 velocities from them.

FWIW, I remember FBI labs concluding that the .357 offered no significant improvement over a .38 Special with properly engineered bullets. All it offered were more penetration (where the .38 is adequate), more flash, more report and more recoil. Same may not be true in a snub nose, where the short barrel could hamper the amount of velocity available. A .357 could put enough energy into the system to make the difference between adequate penetration and failure.

 

[ATX_Shawn]

What an "optimal" stage of wound tract? I don't have any data on how much of a gelatin block would be represented by the skin alone, even though it is an elastic and tough barrier.

.357 Magnum isn't that much faster than a lot of other calibers. Load lighter bullets in the other calibers, you can get .357 velocities from them.

FWIW, I remember FBI labs concluding that the .357 offered no significant improvement over a .38 Special with properly engineered bullets. All it offered were more penetration (where the .38 is adequate), more flash, more report and more recoil. Same may not be true in a snub nose, where the short barrel could hamper the amount of velocity available. A .357 could put enough energy into the system to make the difference between adequate penetration and failure.

IMO, I like my 38 just fine..

 

[M. Sage]

IMO, I like my 38 just fine..

Honestly, it's as much as you'll need for a defensive caliber. I bought a .357 for a backpacking gun, and it gets hot-loaded critter killers for that use. If I have it out around the house, it's got .38 Special loaded in it.

 

[Seven7VII]

Copper or brass? I have never heard of a brass jacket. That sounds interesting.

It’s called a Golden Saber. BJHP

 

[innominate]